841 Powermaster---

As you see I have a Ford 841 Powermaster. The serial number has been worn off, so I do not know the exact year. Other than it does have powersteering (guessing between 1957-1960). I have came to learn that the 841 Powermaster's do have a 4 speed tranny and does not have a live PTO. The engine that it came with was a 134, in which I have a new rebuilt 172 comming in less than a week from WI. From what I gather, the only possible way to install a live PTO into this tractor is by installing a tranny that is a 5 speed, and installing a duel clutch and any other little details. True or Not? My Dad has a 1956 Ford 860 that does have a live PTO in which we use for Bush Hogging. The demensions and everything from what I see (on the outside is very simlar, other than his tranny is a 5 speed obviously) are very similar. So, If I found a used 5 speed tranny and got a duel clutch, would I be pretty much ready to go on this thing, or are there other factors (ie..axles,etc.etc.) that would have to be looked into further?

Please excuse my gross amount of ignorance, as this is my first restoration. I am learning as I go.

Also, if a tractor was built without a live PTO, what big purpose was it used for, esp the 841 Powermaster? What group of individuals was this tractor geared for? What are the Pro's and Con's of this tractor. Any advice, information is GREATLY appreciated. Again, please excuse all the questions that I am asking, but getting into doing this restoration, it has Intrigued me and I absolulty love it!!

THANKS EVERYONE!!
Craig Ellis

The trans is out of a 841 diesel but you have a gas motor. Now was the motor changed or was the trans changed???? Hard to say from the info we got. That could be a 172cu in gas motor. Since you have a new motor coming it does not really matter but if you are like me you just got to know. You can get the casting # and date code off the block and we may be able to tell you. But you have the head off just measure the cylinder bore. The 134 is 3.44 in and the 172 is 3.90 in.

To add live PTO you need a 5 speed out of a 861. The 5 speed out of a 851 is not live PTO. You can tell them apart by the input shaft. The live PTO has two input shafts. One inside the other. You will also need the two stage clutch. Seems like a lot of work and expense unless this tractor was free. I would have just bought a live PTO tractor to start with but that is me.
The only advantage of a live PTO is for mowing and such but you can get use to the non live PTO also.

Your power steering is off a different tractor again. May have been just a city owned tractor painted yellow. Looks like it had power steering all along because the cylinder is red and the box went bad so was replaced with another.

That rear end looks to be a 801.

I have a 5 speed Live PTO transmission with the double clutch and output shaft. You can see what work I did to prepair it for my tractor.

Then I found parts and rebuilt the original 4 speed that was badly broken.

If you are interested, I want $1000 for the whole deal. Bone yards want $1500 to $2000 for just the transmission.

Best of luck in your project!
John Bud In Wisconsin
(Go Pack!)

• My 5 speed

--->Paul

BUT, I have been going to this site 10x more. Much more focus on the great tractors of yesteryear that are more "fun" to run!

jb

Can anyone tell me if this sounds like a fair auction

Please email me at mgmiam@yahoo.com

The 4 speed tranny was a cheaper option than the 5 speed or 5-speed dual clutch models. Simpley ecconomics, buy the tractor you could afford back then.

Your best bet on swapping from a 4 speed to a live pto is to swap the whole rear ends.

The x5x models were 5 speeds, and the x6x models were with live pto. You would need to find all the parts in a x6x tranny, the double shafts, etc. I believe there are 17 parts that are different or added to the x6x tranny from the x5x tranny? Don't get a x5x tranny, you would be missing way too much if you really want live pto.

You are correct, you can't have live pto on a 4-speed.

I can't 'see' anything, did you try to upload a picture? Perhaps it was too large, or something went wrong.

Your tractor will work with the 4 speed for brush hogging if you use an overrunning coupler so it doesn't push you around when you put in the clutch. It just takes a bit more operator skill - you can brag that you are smarter than your dad because you can use this tranny! :)

Kind of a spendy deal to swap out....

--->Paul

Thanks!
Craig

Copy and Paste the links.

You can go to either the first page and see the pics of the tractor when I got it and the 2nd page shows the serial number.

Thanks again Fella's Craig

Then you have yellow pieces bolted to it.

Then for the model number, you have a blue tractor you are picturing????

Or is that after you painted it white & took some of the paint back off - and the lights just made it look blue?

I just want to understand..... Is this all the same tractor?

Looks like a pretty big project, be nice when you have it back to life. :)

So, it was a gas engine you got it with, or diesel? And it would be 6, or 12v? A generator, or a conversion?

Just trying to put the pieces together....

--->Paul

I am as confused as you are. Yes, it was orginally red. Now is is just primered and getting prep'd for paint. The Powersteering was yellow. Makes me believe that that part came off a later model than the orignal.

Engine.. haha I have been calling people tonight, trying to find out the history on this. Per this info from a web site: ·

A "star" before and/or after the serial number indicates hardened steel cylinder sleeves. Hardened steel cylinder sleeves were used in production up to tractor serial number 8N-433578.

· A "diamond" before and/or after the serial number indicates cast-iron cylinder sleeves, which are .098" larger in bore.

· Suffix-AN (e.g. "8NAN"); distillate model, 1939-1952.

· Suffix-B (e.g. "NAB"); distillate model, 1953-1954.

· Suffix-L (e.g. "640L"); LP-gas model, 1955-1962.

· Suffix-D (e.g. "851D"); diesel model, 1958-1962.

BUT, if this is true, Then "orgianlly" It did have a desiel, then it was changed to the 134. The engine that I took out had a distributor with it, so I know that it was a gas engine.
This is a big mystery to me.

Confused in FL
Craig

As a matter of fact. I had the alternator re-built today and it was a 12 volt. I had the guys at Indian River Battery, check it out and rebuilt it for me.

Craig

The diesel tractors came with a 12v setup from the factory, while the gas engines came with a 6v setup.

Would help to see if you had an original 12v generator, would lead us to believe the D thing. :)

--->Paul

It is probable that this tractor was created from 2 bad tractors - one a bad diesel, the other a bad tranny. They bolted the good halves together.

There are date codes on various parts, like the radiator, rear trumpets, and other places. With some investigation, you can figure out the age of manufature of most of the sub-groups of your tractor, see how far different they are.

--->Paul

Good Night Ya'll Craig

--->Paul

Craig

steveormary