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861 Diesel

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Alan8n

04-15-2005 17:41:30




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Hi...I am looking at a 1958 861 Diesel that appears to be in very good condition...I would appreciate any and all comments on this tractor...ie things to look for ,or break alot or in general if it is considered a good tractor etc....I intend to work the tractor but not very hard for very long.....I have a small (60 acres) sorta farm and plan to plow/cultivate /plant about 6 acres...I always liked them and don"t want my emotions get the best of me... Thanks in advance ....Alan

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ron861

04-16-2005 08:54:42




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 Re: 861 Diesel in reply to Alan8n, 04-15-2005 17:41:30  
My Dad purchased his 861 diesel in the spring of 1958,his main tractor on 200 acre dairy farm. I spent a lot of time on this tractor as a kid. The tractor will pull three bottom plow with no problem all day long. I purchased and restored same tractor 15 years ago, with a fresh overhaul and new paint it looks and runs like new. I sent out the fuel pump for rebuilding $500.00 also I overhauled hyd.lift new seals and cam pin. It would be hard for me to part with this tractor!

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awhtx

04-15-2005 19:51:29




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 Re: 861 Diesel in reply to Alan8n, 04-15-2005 17:41:30  
I have a 1958 861D and you need to check out the transmission and clutch thoroughly before buying.
Does the transmission jump out of any gears (3rd is the most common since it is used most often)when letting out the clutch or when going downhill? Do both stages of the clutch function properly? The PTO should start turning first and then the tractor should start moving.

If either the transmission or the clutch needs repair you are looking at big $$$.

I'm also an Alan.

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vfirman

04-16-2005 09:08:34




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 Re: 861 in reply to awhtx, 04-15-2005 19:51:29  
I have what appears to be a clutch problem. The clutch engauges just enough you can see the rear wheels wanting to turn, but it will not fully engauge and the tractor will not move. I didn't hear the thowout bearing or any other strange noises, and it didn't stink or smoke. It just stopped working. ANy ideas here?



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MarkB_MI

04-16-2005 09:42:33




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 Re: 861 in reply to vfirman, 04-16-2005 09:08:34  
Check the adjustment. There's a stop bolt where the clutch linkage goes into the bell housing; this bolt adjusts the free play. You need to have an inch or so of free play. If you can't get any free play by adjusting this bolt, then the clutch is likely blown.

If you have free play in the clutch pedal, I'd look elsewhere.



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vfirman

04-16-2005 10:09:40




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 Re: 861 in reply to MarkB_MI, 04-16-2005 09:42:33  
I just did that(let it all the way out). I got it to go under it's own power. Reverse and low I got decient enough torque to move it pretty good. The rest of the gears...not much torque at all. Looks like a clutch job to me. Thanks. Give me your input on the above.

Vic



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MarkB_MI

04-16-2005 10:20:24




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 Re: 861 in reply to vfirman, 04-16-2005 10:09:40  
Yep, time for a clutch.



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vfirman

04-16-2005 10:28:30




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 Re: 861 in reply to MarkB_MI, 04-16-2005 10:20:24  
Mark,

I live up here in St. Louis_MI. It quit on me last fall. This is the first decient day I've had to look at it since I dont have a garage or barn. Since I've got movement now, I know I've got to split the case to change the clutch, I'd better get the front loader off it and buy a manual. I hope it's not as hard as it sounds. Ever done one?

Vic



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MarkB_MI

04-16-2005 18:15:57




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 Re: 861 in reply to vfirman, 04-16-2005 10:28:30  
Vic,

Since this is a thread on the 861, I assume that's what you have. I've split my row crop 4000 to do the starter ring gear, it's basically the same as 961. You're looking at a weekend-long job if everything goes well. You can find out a lot of info on doing this job by searching the archives here, but I'll hit the high points.

1. If you have the double clutch (i.e. live PTO), be advised that you're going to have a little surprise when you price it out. The general consensus here is that it's false economy to skimp and buy an aftermarket clutch. I suggest you buy a new New Holland clutch assembly rather than take a chance on a rebuild.

2. The manual is a bit of a problem. I turns out that the excellent factory manual is (or at least was) out of print. I believe there's a fellow on eBay who sells authorized reprints on paper or CD-ROM.

3. While you've got the tractor split, be sure and replace the starter ring gear.

4. Splitting the tractor is no big deal, as long as you have a hard, flat surface to work on. I personally wouldn't try to split a tractor on dirt or gravel, although I'm sure it's been done. The manual will give you the details. I used a floor jack under the back half of the tractor, which made it easy to roll the back end out.

Good luck. I'm between Pontiac and Flint, by the way.

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wednesday

06-02-2005 21:08:36




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 Re: 861 in reply to MarkB_MI, 04-16-2005 18:15:57  
Well guys I split this puppy, it's a double clutch. There is a nasty hairball in the bell housing but it is for the most part dry. Actually, the seals all look to be NEW. There is NO clutch media left on the plate at all...it's bare metal for the tranny disc and I suspect a re-manufactured because of how the seals and bearings look to be NEW. The PTO disc is not in great shape either but not near as bad as the drive disc. I will not skimp on the clutch replacement...it will be new OEM. I'm not qualified to rebuild this, and the front drive pressure plate is cracked so I'll buy a new unit. Since I dont have a garage or other suitable place, I split it in the yard. A little clever engineering of a bottle jack that now has steel wheels and a railroad track about 36" long under it did the trick for rolling the rear end away. A floor jack with a modified 2 x 8 that fits flush on the oil pan in the front lets the engine rest peacefully on the jack and the front X. I guess the next step is locating a NEW clutch assembly and then the hard part, butting the two halves back together with as little headache as possible. WISH ME LUCK! If all goes well, it'll be running in a month.

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Feron

04-15-2005 19:25:35




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 Re: 861 Diesel in reply to Alan8n, 04-15-2005 17:41:30  
I have a 1962 861D, I love the one I have, I have restored mine, One thing to check is if it has excess engine noise. The wrist pin bushings are thin and will become worn and start to get loud. This engine is a gas engine converted to diesel. So not built as strong as newer diesels. For what you are doing it should never hurt it



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john in la

04-15-2005 18:27:29




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 Re: 861 Diesel in reply to Alan8n, 04-15-2005 17:41:30  
A very nice tractor. I have a 1959 model myself. While it has minor problems like any tractor the one thing I would check is that the fuel pump is not leaking fuel. That pump cost over $500 to reseal and rebuild.

I find them a little over geared (fast) for close around the yard work but it is just right for plowing/planting.



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Larry NCKS

04-16-2005 09:06:57




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 Re: 861 Diesel in reply to john in la, 04-15-2005 18:27:29  
You guys are paying for something you probably don't need on your pump overhauls. I rebuilt my own for less than $50 including $20 worth of carburetor cleaner. All the seals and the governor retainer ring are available from a diesel shop for $30 for the kit. A T-45 torx ground down is the only real special tool you need.



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