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Standard Issue 3600 3 Cyl. Diesel it appears to b

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Billy NY

06-30-2005 19:58:30




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I seem to need some help ( actually I really need the manuals etc.) figuring out a starter problem. This is a back up tractor at the horse farm, I'm not the owner, that'd be dear o'le dad but I need some quick advice if possible as he does not have th e manuals on it, ( he will soon though, when I find the correct ones available) It sounds like the starter drive is way delayed when you turn the key, it makes all kinds of ugly noises before it finally( 10-15 seconds later ) enagages the flywheel, ( which incidentally was reversed 180 deg. when the tractor was split last fall for clutch work ). I have not seen the actual condition of the flywheel via an inspection cover or anything, but it would seem logical that once the starter gear does engage, it will turn the engine over as long as you wish without any problem, so I would think the flywheel is ok, but that this is a starter drive on a 5" starter for this model, that needs to be replaced. I had this happen on my 850, same thing, starter drive was bad, acted the same, replaced it and solved the problem, not sure if this newer series has the same kind of starter arrangement.

Serial No.'s (both are stamped on the right side, flat spot on trans. housing)

OC 28 B ( above )

* C647308 * ( below ) Anyone know the year ?

This one has power steering, reservior looks low on fluid, anyone know what is the correct fluid ?

Thanks Again !

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Kelly Jewell (KY)

07-01-2005 19:39:35




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 Re: Standard Issue 3600 3 Cyl. Diesel it appears in reply to Billy NY, 06-30-2005 19:58:30  
Billy, from the way you describe your starter is acting, I don't think you need a drive. You say once it engages the flywheel it will spin the motor forever. Sounds like either a bad solenoid or bad connection at battery, starter, or ground. The splines are twisted on the armature where the drive is mounted and there are different splines and therefore different drives for the 5" Lucas, in case you ever want to replace yours. Also, not all 5" starters have the same solenoid. Just remember the solenoid is the critter that pulls the drive into the flywheel ring gear. The other posts are correct, you can't spend much or you have the price of a new starter. I've probbably sold 10,000 starters in my lifetime and they are not much if any higher than they were 25 years ago. Also, New Holland recommends the 134 hyd oil for your power steering. Thanks, Kelly.

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Billy NY

07-02-2005 04:01:54




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 Re: Standard Issue 3600 3 Cyl. Diesel it appears in reply to Kelly Jewell (KY), 07-01-2005 19:39:35  
I think it may just be just as wise to replace the complete unit. Certainly appreciate the tip for the power steering fluid, I've got plenty of the 134 on hand, ( that will be my next project on this one, not sure if the pump is working or not )

Thanks again



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Rod F.

07-01-2005 09:09:12




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 Re: Standard Issue 3600 3 Cyl. Diesel it appears in reply to Billy NY, 06-30-2005 19:58:30  
Hi Billy,

The tractor was assembled on the 28th of March, 1980.
This sounds like a bad starter drive. It makes a lot of grinding and snapping noises? Starter motor turns over, whirrrr.... but the engine doesn't spin? Bad drive. You'll likely have to remove the fuel filters to get the starter off. A wobble extension helps immensley with the back bolt on the starter. Price out a drive for the starter, and price out a complete new starter. Depending on which drive was used, you may find the cost differential to be better on a new starter. Some of those drives are up near $100. Consider that tomorrow it may need a solenoid or brushes, + your time, and you quickly have the price of a new starter. That said, some drives are cheap, and the rest may work for a long time.....
On the flywheel; do you mean that the flywheel was installed 180 degrees from it's original location, or a new ring gear was installed backwards? If the flywheel was simply rotated 180 degrees from it's original location, it will make no difference to the starter. It will set the timing marks off, and it may not be good for the engine's balance if the flywheel was drilled for balancing purposes. Also, even if a ring gear was installed backwards, it will probably still work fairly well. I can't remember for sure if those rings were chamfered. I think the were, but it's not a whole lot. Best of luck.

Rod

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Billy NY

07-01-2005 19:47:40




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 Re: Standard Issue 3600 3 Cyl. Diesel it appears in reply to Rod F., 07-01-2005 09:09:12  
I believe the ring gear was removed, spun around (180 deg.)and reinstalled, I assume they did not reverse the flywheel, just the ring gear.


Oh, and it certainly looks fun to remove, the starter is new on this one, I think last fall, so I thought just the drive might be defective, but certainly would replace the whole unit, there may be some warranty on it still, but they might have to bite the bullet on that. I have not run it much as the noise makes one believe that the ring gear is getting torn up !

I replaced just the drive on my 850 and have a starter rebuild kit on the shelf, but have not had to use it so far, but that is comparing apples to oranges, the starter on the 3600 is much bigger and different in appearance, and I should know more about these as we had a Ford Tractor dealership for many years prior to when this one was built.

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tim in pa

07-01-2005 06:52:55




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 Re: Standard Issue 3600 3 Cyl. Diesel it appears in reply to Billy NY, 06-30-2005 19:58:30  
billy, starters, when given the proper power, are supposed to do their thing. agreed gear engagement is required, but the fact noise happens immediately suggests the power is ther. that leads you to starter first, you'll have to pull it and see. that will also open you up to the ring for a look. look at bendix and connections.



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Billy NY

07-01-2005 19:55:25




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 Re: Standard Issue 3600 3 Cyl. Diesel it appears in reply to tim in pa, 07-01-2005 06:52:55  
Will do !



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Charles (in GA)

07-01-2005 06:09:55




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 Re: Standard Issue 3600 3 Cyl. Diesel it appears in reply to Billy NY, 06-30-2005 19:58:30  
If this 3600 is part of the '65-'75 3000 series, which I suspect it is, follow the link below for tractor ID info.

I just replaced the starter on a 3000 diesel and the replacement for the original Lucas is a very nice looking Danish made unit. Cost $149 new. Old starter had burned up field coils and was not worth fixing. Shop had another Lucas like mine on the counter he had just put a solenoid on for $55.

Charles

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Billy NY

07-01-2005 19:54:16




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 Re: Standard Issue 3600 3 Cyl. Diesel it appears in reply to Charles (in GA), 07-01-2005 06:09:55  
Thanks for the link !



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souNdguy

06-30-2005 21:00:44




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 Re: Standard Issue 3600 3 Cyl. Diesel it appears in reply to Billy NY, 06-30-2005 19:58:30  
Some ring gears are chanmfered for easier engagement.. if it's on backwards.. that would be defeated..

Soundguy



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Billy NY

07-01-2005 04:36:36




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 Re: Standard Issue 3600 3 Cyl. Diesel it appears in reply to souNdguy, 06-30-2005 21:00:44  
That is true, not sure what the situation is on this one whether the ring gear is reversible, cut the same on both sides etc.,( personally I'd have put a new one on if the tractor was split, but but not having the shop manual and parts catalog at the moment, like I have for the 850, I'm not sure if this is a 5" starter with a seperate starter drive, which seems to be the trouble and is a $50.00 part from what I've seen listed here.

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RickB

07-01-2005 14:06:23




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 Re: Standard Issue 3600 3 Cyl. Diesel it appears in reply to Billy NY, 07-01-2005 04:36:36  
Ring gear is chamfered, but only one side. Flywheel only fits crank in one position if you insist on using all the bolts. For what it's worth, at the NH dealership where I work, if it needs a solenoid or a drive it gets a complete starter. Solenoids are stocked only for sale over the parts counter and I'd be surprised if we stock a drive for the Lucas style starter. At shop rate, it makes no sense to put pieces on a starter. On your time, maybe.

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Billy NY

07-01-2005 19:53:13




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 Re: Standard Issue 3600 3 Cyl. Diesel it appears in reply to RickB, 07-01-2005 14:06:23  
I agree on that, especially since it's a little bit of apain to change out, because of those 2 bolts tucked inside. May just change it out. We did the same in our shop, it made no sense to have something comeback for the same thing.



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