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Pre-force 3000 - could somebody check a bolt-size

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Bob Unitt

12-10-2005 09:36:22




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Gentlefolk, I have a 1966 (I think) 3000. I need to know the proper size of the four bolts which fasten the Drawbar Support Plate Assembly to the bottom of the rear transmission housing. The ones currently fitted are 9/16" UNF by 2" overall length, but two of the holes are thread-stripped, and I have a feeling it may be because the existing bolts are too short.
I need to know length of thread, length of plain shank and overall length.
TIA

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Bob Unitt

12-11-2005 00:25:48




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 Re: Pre-force 3000 - check a bolt-size CORRECTION in reply to Bob Unitt, 12-10-2005 09:36:22  
Gentlemen, I misread my thread-tables last night (cold, tired - usual excuses...). 9/16"*12 TPI is WHITWORTH, not UNF ! So these bolts DO have a coarse thread, but smaller than the 5/8" specified in the aforementioned parts-book pdf. I note that the parts-book apparently runs from 1965, and I begin to wonder if my tractor is a bit older than I thought - anyone got the parts-book for a pre-65 3000/Super Dexta to hand ?

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Bob Unitt

12-15-2005 02:45:50




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 Re: Pre-force 3000 - check a bolt-size CORRECTION in reply to Bob Unitt, 12-11-2005 00:25:48  
The plot thickens - I was talking to a chap last night who used to maintain early 3000's, and he tells me that the thread in question is not Whitworth but UNC (same TPI). Given that the bolts are definitely Whitworth (55 Deg) and the holes were UNC (60 deg) I can see how the threads may have got stripped in the first place...
I think my only answer is to drill oversize and re-tap the offending holes to something larger, and then turn-up some stepped studs to suit.

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Bob Unitt

12-11-2005 00:03:51




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 Re: Pre-force 3000 - could somebody check a bolt-s in reply to Bob Unitt, 12-10-2005 09:36:22  
Gentlemen, thanks for your comments. There would appear to be two styles for this component, a long one with 6 bolts and a short one with 4 - mine is the short one, as shown on page 218 of the PDF DiscGolfer recently posted on his web-page (see topic 'Thousand series parts manuals on my web page'). According to that diagram these bolts should be 5/8"-11, but mine are definitely 9/16"-12 TPI - I wonder if this was a difference between US and UK-built tractors ?

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cdmn

12-11-2005 20:05:11




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 Re: Pre-force 3000 - could somebody check a bolt-s in reply to Bob Unitt, 12-11-2005 00:03:51  
Also be careful about greasing the bolts. You could create enough hydraulic force to punch out the holes in the casting. Then you'll need thread sealer to keep all the axle oil from leaking out. (The last guy who worked on mine did that)



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RodinNS

12-10-2005 13:45:08




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 Re: Pre-force 3000 - could somebody check a bolt-s in reply to Bob Unitt, 12-10-2005 09:36:22  
Hmmm. I think that somebody's been at that housing before you. 9/16" UNF doesn't sound right to me. I would expect a coarse thread in those holes. I would also expect 6 bolts, but I could be wrong.....
So, you'll need to evaluate what's left of the thread and see if cleaning them up and going with a longer bolt will be enough, or if you're going to need a larger bolt/hole. You would probably get away with a 5/8" UNC. Consult a tap chart for the correct drill size, and drill the hole to the same depth as before. Then run a taper tap, and finish with a bottoming tap to carry the thread down square to the end of the hole. There SHOULD be enough meat in the casting to accomodate the larger hole, but I can't guarntee that. If it were me, I would look hard at cleaning up the thread at the present size if possible, and if that won't suffice, then go to the larger hole size. The last experience I had with this was on a 7710 where I hauled 2 3/4" bolts out and snapped 2 5/8" bolts clean off. I ended up redrilling the 3/4" up to 7/8", and running the full depth up into the housing. The problem is that the factory bolts are an odd length, and if they break or work loose, most people will replace them with a shorter bolt rather than cut a longer bolt to fit. Basically, you must measure the depth of the hole, the thickness of the drawbar housing itself, plus an allowance for washers, and get the length of bolt required. You will no doubt end up getting a longer bolt and cutting it to the exact length, with some degree of trial and error. Just watch them when torquing, and make sure they take torque and tighten the housing, and not just bottom in the hole and leave the housing loose. Watch this carefully. This is a project that will require some degree of ingeniuity. Just use common sense, and be exact with what you do. If this tractor has been lugging heavy downward drawbar loads, then look at the rear of the tractor housing to see if there's 2 good holes below the PTO to install a rear mounting point to the drawbar housing. If there's 2 decent size holes, horizontally in the housing, you can fab a strip to bolt into these holes, and weld it directly to the drawbar housing. This will add a significant amount of support to a housing that is somewhat weakened. This is a repair that I have, and others have done to our 7710's. I know this didn't answer your original question, but hopefully it'll give some general idea of where to go. best of luck

Rod

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murn-ga

12-10-2005 11:30:59




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 Re: Pre-force 3000 - could somebody check a bolt-s in reply to Bob Unitt, 12-10-2005 09:36:22  
Bob, please do not use my post for your repair,wait for a more knowledgeable answer. The orginal draw bar hanger had 6 bolts,yours has 4? The org bolts were all 5/8 course and a weird lenth,like 1.138. I always gave a coustmer 1 1/2" with a lock and flat washer since all special hardware was lost. Do you suppose someone drilled old broken bolts and taped to 9/16 fine? I would have thought 2" length would have broken thru the housing into rear axle oil.Something ain't right!

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