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Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
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Oil Pump

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alg

01-13-2006 15:48:31




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I have a 62'Ford 4000 with a 172cu.in. engine.Have low oil pressure at idle when oil is hot.I know the crank is worn and needs to be replaced.I check the clearences on the oil pump and they are within spec.The top end of the engine is strong,good compression.My question is?Could I replace the oil pump with one of the high pressure pumps and get by without replacing the crank.Only use the tractor about 40 hrs. per year.

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Hal/WA

01-15-2006 19:36:37




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 Re: Oil Pump in reply to alg, 01-13-2006 15:48:31  
I have a 641Diesel with lots of hours on it. It has good power and starts fairly easily, but has quite a bit of blow-by and I cannot seem to stay ahead of the various oil leaks. The oil pressure gauge reads somewhat over 20 pounds pressure when the machine is hot and working hard, but as long as I make sure that the oil level never gets beyond 2 quarts low, it never goes below 20 pounds pressure at idle or at any higher engine speed. I have had this tractor for about 15 years, and the oil pressure has stayed about the same.

I use 20W50 oil in the 641D, as the hot pressure is a little better than with 30W. I use the 20W50 year-round, but do not try to start the engine without first heating it up for awhile with the electric lower radiator hose heater--I think it is too hard on the electrical system and possibly the oil pump drive to turn it over in extreme cold. It always starts very easily if the heater has been on for an hour or so, even below zero F, and the oil pressure on the gauge comes right up.

I know that sometime I will need to rebuild the engine--my hour meter was over 9000 when it quit working years ago. But as long as the tractor keeps working as well as it has been, I will just keep checking the oil and adding some as it is needed.

BTW I am in the market for a rebuildable 172 diesel engine that is not too far away from Spokane, WA. I think I could use the head, injector pump and injectors from my 144 diesel engine, as well as all the external parts.

Good luck with your engine. I would try running somewhat heavier oil to see if the hot pressures are better. But be careful if you need to start it in extreme cold.

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Richard H.

01-13-2006 17:01:12




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 Re: Oil Pump in reply to alg, 01-13-2006 15:48:31  
What are you calling low # wise and what is high? A new pump may not be the answer if the one it has, has a decent high number. If low no. is near 20psi I would not worry to much about it at 40 hrs a year. Also depends on what kind of load you are putting it thru. If you do change the pump I would pull off the main caps and inspect each, one at a time. Or just pull the pan anyway and check your bearings. Then you may want to decide weather or not to treat it with kid gloves.

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alg

01-13-2006 18:40:51




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 Re: Oil Pump in reply to Richard H., 01-13-2006 17:01:12  
Rich,at idle with hot oil get about 10 psi oil press.@ 1200 rpm's get about 40 psi.I did pull the bearings and there was wear.I even replaced the bearings and it did not get any better.Tells me crank is worn.



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john_bud

01-13-2006 20:18:19




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 Re: Oil Pump in reply to alg, 01-13-2006 18:40:51  
You may be able to just use a thicker oil, like a modern diesel truck oil at 15w40 or some syn's are 15w50.

10 at idle and 40 at 1200 rpm isn't all that horrible.

If you really want to try higher pressure, you can also just shim the pumps spring with a washer. It's basically free and will tell you if a higher pressure pump is going to do anything.

jb



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Richard H.

01-13-2006 20:17:27




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 Re: Oil Pump in reply to alg, 01-13-2006 18:40:51  
Whether you put in a new pump or not, did I tell you that I am a firm believer in Slick 50. If it is your only tractor and you need it, they are not that tough to rebuilb but can get a little pricey. Did you also do the rod bearings? Richard



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RodInNS

01-14-2006 06:56:58




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 Re: Oil Pump in reply to Richard H., 01-13-2006 20:17:27  
Owwwww, not slick 50..... Do a google search on that stuff. Aside from the advertising that comes up, 90 % of the rest of the information is negative. Particulairly the consumer reports and other such agencies that have done scientific testing. The basic problem with Slick 50, and all the other snake oils that use teflon (ptfe) is that the teflon has a tendency to block oil filters, oil passages and generally work to ACCELERATE cold start wear rather than prevent cold start wear. The idea that it fills micropores and provides a film for parts to ride on is somewhat true, but the damage it does from preventing oil flow is considerably worse. As far as I'm concerned, the only group of engine oil additives that do increase the value of protection are the ones like Lucas that strengthen the oil's additive package with zinc. Basically, these additive packages are only increasing the quantities of zinc and other stuff that were already there in the engine oil. They don't do any harm except to your pocket book. They don't do much good either. I think you're playing with fire using Slick 50 or any other ptfe based additive....
If you want to build oil pressure in the old tractor, try a heavier weight oil like 15W40 or 20W50. That's if it isn't knocking. If it's knocking, then I'd plastigauge the bearings and see how badly things are worn, and have them repaired, crank cut, whatever... You get a rod throught the block from a bad bearing, it's going to cost you lot more than a minor rebuild..... FWIW,

Rod

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Richard H.

01-14-2006 09:28:29




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 Hold on there in reply to RodInNS, 01-14-2006 06:56:58  
Rod if you read thru the post above, Alg is knows he is not rebuilding it yet and knows he is not going to do a rebuild just yet. At 40hrs a year I doubt that Slick 50 or what ever would hurt knowing a rebuild is iminent.

Are you the one on tractor talk who has the good comments (pros and cons) on the power stroke deisel? I have some personal info if your interested and my mail is open. Richard

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RodInNS

01-14-2006 13:32:45




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 Re: Hold on there in reply to Richard H., 01-14-2006 09:28:29  
Point with Slick is that it might not hurt it, but I'll about guarntee you it won't do any good. I'm not a fan of aftermarket oil additives. I hate the thought of putting that stuff in a tractor, or anything else for that matter..... However, if it works, I'll say no more than you might want to research it more yourself....
On the powerjokes..... Yes, i've made some comments. Mostly negative. The premise of a V-8 diesel engine just never worked for me. I know some guys that had great luck with those engines (both the 6.9 and 7.3), but I know a lot more that cursed the day they ever laid eyes on one. A local guy I know that runs a garage has a deck truck with a Cummins and a wrecker with a 7.3. He generally wishes the wrecker disappeared, while the other truck gives very little trouble with many times the mileage of the wrecker. The vast majority of 7.3's I've seen and owners I've talked to found the 7.3 to be a mediocre engine. The 6BT5.9 Cummins is nearly always well regarded. So that's my thoughts on the powerstroke. If you've got any info to send, just click on my email....it'll work.

Rod

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