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5000 oil-coolant mixing

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BlueTractorFarmer

02-04-2006 17:54:09




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Last week I posted a message about my 5000 getting oil in the coolant. I removed the head and took it back to the machine shop where they checked it out for me again. They found nothing wrong with it and there were no visible imperfections on the gasket. I reinstalled the head onto the tractor with a new gasket. I filled the radiator with water and still had the oil plug out. As soon as the water level reached the head water started driping out of the oil plug hole. I lowered the water level to below the head and it stopped driping water out. Where could it be coming from?

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RustyAL

02-04-2006 19:17:02




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 Re: 5000 oil-coolant mixing in reply to BlueTractorFarmer, 02-04-2006 17:54:09  
The Ford blocks are know for holes in the cylinders. Does the block have sleeves?



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BlueTractorFarmer

02-05-2006 08:30:54




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 Re: 5000 oil-coolant mixing in reply to RustyAL, 02-04-2006 19:17:02  
Yes it has dry liners. It doesn't drip water out of the oil plug if the water level is at the bottom of the head. Just as soon as you add water and fill the head it starts to drip again. I guess I have a cracked head in a water port and the machine shop didn't find it.



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gerard

02-05-2006 10:57:03




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 Re: 5000 oil-coolant mixing in reply to BlueTractorFarmer, 02-05-2006 08:30:54  
How was it tested? Visually, Ardrox or kerosene? Are you absolutely sure you have the correct gasket? Surface of block / head would have to be miles out for that to be cause of leak on just refilling. Are the head bolts pulling down correctly, or are they thread bound?



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BlueTractorFarmer

02-05-2006 16:05:20




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 Re: 5000 oil-coolant mixing in reply to gerard, 02-05-2006 10:57:03  
I checked the bolts and they appeared to have adequate threads to tighten down, but I placed grade 8 flat washers under the bolts to ensure that I had enough. As for the gasket it'self I have ordered the head set from TISCO both times and was assured that it was correct. It looks right but I don't know for sure. I have the water level in the head just above the gasket up in the head where I can see it through the thermostat housing and it has remained there all day without the water level droping. I'm not sure where it could be but there must be a crack inside the head not visable to the eye. If you run the tractor it will get oil in the coolant at a very fast rate, but I havn't ran it this time. *Note* (It doesn't have an oil cooler in the radiator either).

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gerard

02-06-2006 09:56:11




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 Re: 5000 oil-coolant mixing in reply to BlueTractorFarmer, 02-05-2006 16:05:20  
This is the sort of problem that makes one take up drinking ...
I can only say what I"d do (40 + yrs working on many different engine types) - take head off (again) block up openings and turn upside down, keeping perfectly level. Carefully fill water jacket with diesel or kerosene & look. The rate your oil is leaking (or water, whichever way you look at it) it shouldn"t take long to determine visually if it"s cracked. Must say your symptoms are unusual, though. Oil in water is usually water cooled oil cooler or leaky gasket, whilst water in oil can be cylinder leaks, cracked block, cracked head, core plugs (on ferguson) blown gasket etc. The only real common denominator is the gasket, & that"s new. If I recall correctly, your earlier post said you had liners. Do they have a fire-ring? If so, sure your gasket fits over them with at least 1/16" slack? I ask because the industrial Fords I"m used to have 3 different gaskets - parent bore, turbo c/w chrome liners, turbo c/w cast iron liners (with fire ring). Likewise 6354 Perkins had two different types depending on fire ring / no ring. Don"t know if the above applies to your engine - just thinking aloud.

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BlueTractorFarmer

02-06-2006 15:01:01




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 Re: 5000 oil-coolant mixing in reply to gerard, 02-06-2006 09:56:11  
I Have located the problem it has a small hole in the block on the left side of the #2water jacket near the bottom and guess what is on the other side, the high pressure oil for the camshaft. I found it by filling the block with water and putting air pressure in where the oil sending unit goes. Any ideas on how to repair this. A new block, epoxy etc. I could get to it with an epoxy if there is one that will stand up to the heat, water, oil and pressure. The hole is very small must be a sand pit hole.

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john_bud

02-06-2006 19:50:00




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 Re: 5000 oil-coolant mixing in reply to BlueTractorFarmer, 02-06-2006 15:01:01  
Blue,

Congratulations on finding the hole.... and my condolences on your having a hole!

There are a few options. You can braze it, silver solder, Ni weld or epoxy. Each has it's own advantages, advocates and pitfalls. The one thing in common is that you are going to have to really really work at getting all of the oil out of there.

If it were me, I would try one of the metal filled epoxy products first. Grab a can or two of brake cleaner and try and get rid of all trace of oil. If possible, try and make the repair the shape of an hour glass, pinched in the middle. That will anchor it down good and hopefully keep any pressure from blowing out the repair.

If that fails, you will have to resort to doing it the right way and melt some metal! Cast iron can be a real bear, so good luck.

jb

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gerard

02-07-2006 13:39:49




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 Re: 5000 oil-coolant mixing in reply to john_bud, 02-06-2006 19:50:00  
Agree with john bud - glad you found it. Thought your problem was above gasket level? I've done a few repairs like john says - a good metal filled epoxy will last if done properly. Perkins V8 was prone to such casting imperfections. If possible, as he says, get a small grinder point & do a dentist job - make a small cavity (without enlarging hole dia) for the epoxy to get a grip. Alternatively, if you can get to it to do so, drill & tap hole & put a short setscrew into it with plenty of epoxy or loctite.

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BlueTractorFarmer

02-07-2006 18:07:14




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 Re: 5000 oil-coolant mixing in reply to gerard, 02-07-2006 13:39:49  
The hole is going to be impossible to get to it is at the bottom of the water jacket and the only access is through a 1/2 inch water port. Anybody got a block or a used engine 233 Diesel C5NN6015B cast #.



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gerard

02-05-2006 11:04:46




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 Re: 5000 oil-coolant mixing in reply to gerard, 02-05-2006 10:57:03  
Further thoughts - you have oil getting into water & water into oil, but only from above block area. For water to get in the oil, there are several possibilities, but the other way round ..the only area is the oil feed to rockers. Never heard of a crack affecting that. Besides, it's on the pressure side of oil pump, so simply filling rad wouldn't get water into sump. Answer - I'm totally mystified. If it's not a gasket or bolt problem .....?

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