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1710 Hyd. System

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Jim Karr

09-02-2001 18:39:05




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I bought a front end loader and a 3 point hitch back hoe for my 1710. I hooked into my aux. port for the front end loader. Now my 3 point hitch hyd. will not work unless I use my loader valve to raise my 3 point. Can some one tell me what could be wrong? Also I have not tried to hook up my Backhoe I am looking for info on were I should hook into the hyd. so I do not have any more problems.




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TomG

09-03-2001 03:45:23




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 Re: 1710 Hyd. System in reply to Jim Karr, 09-02-2001 18:39:05  
By auxiliary port, I guess you mean the auxiliary system ports on the hydraulic manifold block (block on lower right side of engine). One port on the block is send, the other is return and the slot screw head is the diverter valve that selects between aux and remote systems. Return from the aux system is fed into the 3ph high-pressure line. The 3ph, but not the loader should work in remote. The loader should work in aux, and the 3ph should work as well but will stop when any loader valve is active. The loader valve may be a power-beyond valve type (one hose on the inlet section and two on the outlet section). A likely explanation is that the two outlet hoses are reversed. The ports on power-beyond valves often are stamped with 'P' or 'IN' for input; 'PB' for power beyond return and 'T' for low pressure return. The PB hose goes to the return port on the manifold block and the T hose goes directly to a port on the side of the TX/DIFF case. The PB line carries the open centre flow and would power the 3ph when the loader isn't active. Operating the loader closes the centre, which blocks the open centre flow to the 3ph and powers the loader. The T hose carries return oil from the loader cylinders. Ordinarily cylinder return oil goes directly to the sump. If the T and PB hoses were reversed, the open centre flow would go directly to the sump while the 3ph would receive oil only as long as a loader cylinder was moving. Whatever the problem, you should be able to recognize the sound of the system pressure relief valve. Some hookups could block the open centre (e.g. failing to remove the centre plug from some new loader valves). The relief valve would almost always be open and the tractor shouldn't be run for long in such a condition.

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Jim Karr

09-03-2001 15:46:18




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 Re: Re: 1710 Hyd. System in reply to TomG, 09-03-2001 03:45:23  
TomG Thank you for the help. I believe what you said is with the PB port this can not be capped off it must return to the tran or diff. It seems the front end loader and the back hoe do not address any hyd. hook up directions. I will try this. Also can the back hoe connect into the ports at the flo control ports?



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TomG

09-04-2001 03:01:50




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 Re: Re: Re: 1710 Hyd. System in reply to Jim Karr, 09-03-2001 15:46:18  
The PB line must be open and run to another open centre valve, to the sump or to the manifold aux system return port. The advantage of running it to the manifold block is that both the loader and 3ph will operate without changing the diverter valve. If connected through the manifold, oil returns to the sump through the 3ph, but you’re right, open centre systems always require an open path from the pump to the sump when no control valve is operated.

It is possible to damage a valve assembly by reversing the PB and T lines. The T line handles low-pressure cylinder return oil, while line PB line pressures may go up to the system relief valve setting when a down-stream control valve closes the centre. If the PB and T lines were reversed, parts of the valve assembly that are built to withstand low-pressures may be subjected to high pressure if the loader and 3ph are operated simultaneously. The amount of pressure would depend the weight on the 3ph.

I run my backhoe from a valve controlled pair on the rear of the tractor (the 3rd valve on my loader valve assembly). I make the connections and bungee-cord the valve forward when operating the hoe. Unlike ordinary double-acting cylinders, hoes have definite inputs and outputs. Connecting them backwards damages things. To make this type connection, I have to be certain which hose gets pressure when the control valve is forward. I coded my hoses with coloured plastic ties, but a pressure hose can be felt to stiffen when a control valve is pulled.

Perhaps a better connection (since there are fewer valve parts in the line) is to run the PB line to the hoe input in which case the open centre flow runs through the hoe valve and out the hoe return line on route to the sump. A short hose can be made to connect the ends of the PB line together when the hoe is removed. If quick connectors are used for this hose, it must be well protected. Quick connectors pull apart easily, in which case there could be a lot of oil on the ground.

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Jim Karr

09-04-2001 17:08:23




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 1710 Hyd. System in reply to TomG, 09-04-2001 03:01:50  
TomG can I take the return line for the hoe and attach it to the flo control valve located under the seat at the front ? Thanks for all the info



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TomG

09-05-2001 02:55:48




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 1710 Hyd. System in reply to Jim Karr, 09-04-2001 17:08:23  
I don't believe so, but my knowledge may be getting challenged here. The flow-control valve isn't actually in the open centre flow. The check, poppet and maybe unload valves are between the flow-control valve and the return line. All these valves are normally closed when the 3ph is in neutral mode. Lift and lower modes affect the valves differently.

There is a plug on the right side of the TX/DIFF case that can be used for return oil. That's where my T-line (lower pressure return from a power-beyond valve) is connected. There are perhaps other plugs on the cases that could be used. However, a T-line and PB return line can't be connected through a T-fitting. That would defeat the purpose of power beyond.

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