Ford 4000 loader hydraulics

Here is the problem. Think my GPM rate is too low for loader. We put loader on a 67 5000 and it had to be revved above 1600 always, and was still just slow. At idle loader wouldn't move. Have cam driven live pump, but would need a hyd reservoir to use it only.

Question: Can I use the ford block valve (under remote), and from tractor hydraulics, feed my cam driven pump, use my tractor hydraulic reservoir and thus step up my hydraulic flow?

Wayne

Back to the question. Can I pull fluid from the block under the valve, then boost it with the cam driven pump, run the loader with return back into the hydraulics?
Has anyone done this, or know it can be done?

Wayne

If you hook into the hydraulics under the seat to feed another pump the second pump will run out of fluid. The tractor is positive displacement and will only put out 4.5 gpm max period.

Not on my 1968 Ford 4000. 3Pt and remote hydraulics are pressurized by an internal pump. "The 3pt and remote hydraulics are operated by a cam driven pump mounted on the left side of the tractor.

This is the question I asked. But how do you know this? Have you seen it? Is this speculation? Newer tractors use a booster system. What I do not know is whether they pull from pressurized flow or pull from unpressurized fluid from the rear hydrauilcs. That is why I asked the question. I am looking for someone who knows for sure. "If you hook into the hydraulics under the seat to feed another pump the second pump will run out of fluid. The tractor is positive displacement and will only put out 4.5 gpm max period."

Thanks for the replies.

But yes, in principle you can combine the flow of those 2 sources. Just remember to install a relief from the engine mounted pump... HTH.

Rod

"Thinking about it some... I would say yes. You would need to pick up a flow divider/combiner (sequencing valve) and use this to combine the two separate flows. Now... I'm not sure right off how that plate is going to play with 3 point functioning.... so you might want to go with an Auxiliarry Services Control valve under the seat so that you can switch flow on or off. Again, this is if you're not sure what that robber plate is going to do to the 3 point. I'll be honest and say I'm not sure.
But yes, in principle you can combine the flow of those 2 sources. Just remember to install a relief from the engine mounted pump... HTH.

Rod "

What I'm talking about is using a flow divider/combiner to combine the flow of two pumps to to give you more flow. Now I understand how that plate works... so you would plump one line from the plate into the flow combiner.

The second pump would then be mounted on the engine. The suction of that pump would need to be plumbed to the sump of the tractor. The output line of that pump would need to be run through a releif valve (and the releif valve must be able to dump directly to sump, or into the pump suction side), and then the output line would continue through to the flow combiner's input, beside the other line.

The output line from the flow combiner would then go to feed your loader valve. This system will allow you to combine the flows of the two pumps, so you should get handy 10 gpm, depending on the size of the second pump. Still not fast, but certainly improved.
The flow combiner would be available in Canada through Princess Auto, or perhaps Northern Tool in the US. Also, any local hydraulics supplier could get you one, and probably offer a bit more pertinent advice on sizing one. You may need one with some priority controls for matching 2 different flows, although I think it's straight forward... You're looking at about 200 bucks worth of valves there with the combiner and releif valve. DO NOT forget the releif valve as you have nothing else protecting that second pump. HTH.

Rod

I just added the Tisco HV5902 adapter plate which I bought from this site. I posted a picture in the parts & pieces gallery. I'll try to post the same pic in this post. Installation was pretty straight forward. I had to buy new o-rings for the existing plate that gets relocated on top of the TISCO plate. The loader is slower than the old bolt on loader was with the front mounted pump but I haven't worked out how to keep the front mounted pump with the quick attach loader.

The mighty 4gpm pump on my ford 660 runs my loader even at 600 engine rpms.. mind you.. it's real slow...

Soundguy

This loader is twice the size (hydraulics) of the loader on your 660. The 5000 (similiar size to the one I want to mount) did barely move at idle, but was useless. You had to revv it to 1600 to use the loader.
I think this cam-driven pump is 12.5GPM. The real problem is I have no good location to mount a reservoir. Since my tractor is 4 x 4, just finding a loader that would mount was a major chore. I have a FREEMAN loader for the 68 FORD 4000, but it interfears with the driveline. Gotta sell it. Finally found this Farmhand 570 off a 4630 that will bolt up. Need to get it mounted.
Wayne

Soundguy

When I mounted my Wagner on my Dexta, I used a crank driven pump via shaft, and had to use it at idle, because it was too fast at high RPM. This is ideal. First because it was live, second because of the GPM flow. With the Wagner, the reservoir was in the loader, but with this loader I have for my 4000, I have to find an external reservoir.

"The one pump will only do so much, an auxillary pump driven by the crank pulley is your best alternative. Back in the day of the 4000, the loader cylinders were smaller which made them act quicker. "