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Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
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Ford 8700 Coolant in Oil

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bch7

02-26-2007 21:15:17




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Hi Folks,

Familiar with Ford and cavitation, we found coolant in the 8700 (8000 hours)and decided to rebuild/sleeve. To our surprize, the engine had been sleeved and they were perfect so we pressure checked the head and block several times. We even blocked off the water pump port and filled with solvent and looked for leaks...no luck. We went back to the head gasket and thought the oil and coolant return area of the head gasket may have been compromised. Decided to shave head, deck block, checked head bolts for bottoming out, and torques to spec. Still water in oil. No oil in radiator. Is there an inexpensive way to check the block and head with Zylo or Magnaflux? Any other ideas are appreciated.

Also have an 8600, 9600, 545, 7000, TW15, AC185, D17, Farmtrac 555DTC

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billyar

02-28-2007 04:45:41




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 Re: Ford 8700 Coolant in Oil in reply to bch7, 02-26-2007 21:15:17  
Check for a freeze behind the timing cover mounting plate,that may not be the right discription the plate between the cover and the block. I can't remember for sure but I think theres one one each end of the block look in the parts book frist.



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jra

02-27-2007 05:35:37




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 Re: Ford 8700 Coolant in Oil in reply to bch7, 02-26-2007 21:15:17  
I'm not familiar with the Ford engine, but if it has water cooled cooper injector tubes I would check them real close. I had a 855 cummins that had a injector tube that would leak when hot but stop when it was cold. I like to never found it. If you are using green antifreeze, look in the intake and exhaust ports in Head with a good light, if you see any green stuff, you found your leak.



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john_bud

02-27-2007 05:33:17




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 Re: Ford 8700 Coolant in Oil in reply to bch7, 02-26-2007 21:15:17  

Yes, magnaflux makes a 3 part spray system to check for cracks. You have to get the part to be checked perfectly oil free first. Cracks sometimes open only under heat and stress hard to find.

You can get the sprays from most welding supply shops.

It does sound like you have a crack or an ill fitting sleeve. Have you pulled the sleeves and eyeballed them?



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bch7

02-27-2007 06:39:24




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 Re: Ford 8700 Coolant in Oil in reply to john_bud, 02-27-2007 05:33:17  
Thanks John. We carefully inspected the sleeves when we rebuilt the motor and our local shop said "who ever installed them did an excellent job". We even went so far as to warm the sleeves while checking for leaks. I read a technique from another post where he threaded a fitting into the block and exherted a few psi of compressed air into the block to locate the leak. I could heat the tractor up, drain oil, pull the oil pan, and search for leaks? What are your thoughts? Last resort Magnaflux only because of the cleanliness required and I'm trying to avoid splitting the tractor again. What are your thoughts?

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john_bud

02-27-2007 20:33:28




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 Re: Ford 8700 Coolant in Oil in reply to bch7, 02-27-2007 06:39:24  
Well, I think that your idea of warming the tractor up, then dropping the pan may have merit. If you can do that fast while the coolant is still pressurized. (Say, does that tractor have a low pressure cap or a 14 psi cap?) For test purposes, a high pressure cap may help, or make up a compressed air fitting and put the system to 18-20 psi. Any more and the hoses will pop.

When you say you warmed the sleeves, was that hitting them with a touch from a propane torch? If so, you sealed them. *huh* ? The sleeve and block expand at the same rate. Heating the sleeve from the inside, heats the sleeve first. It expands from the heat as the block is still cold and smaller and makes a tight seal.

"Mystery" leaks on wet sleeved blocks can be from a bad o-ring on the sleeve. Check close around the bottom of the cylinders. Cracked head is usually near the exhaust valves, but those leak into the combustion chamber and are easy to find. Super clean chamber. Are any head bolts into the coolant?

Random thought. See if your machine shop can get you some UV dye. Put it in the coolant, run till it's hot, dump the pan and then inspect the crank case with a UV light and see if you can find the leak.

Is the water pump leaking ? Bolts all tight and correct length in the right places?

Sorry if this is dis-jointed. I have a cold coming on and the head is starting to fill with cotton ...

jb

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RodInNS

02-26-2007 21:28:35




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 Re: Ford 8700 Coolant in Oil in reply to bch7, 02-26-2007 21:15:17  
Is there an oil to water cooler on that engine? Could be an internal failure in there? Dunno what else, unless you're missing a leak somewhere.

Rod



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bch7

02-26-2007 21:55:01




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 Re: Ford 8700 Coolant in Oil in reply to RodInNS, 02-26-2007 21:28:35  
Yes, the bottom of the radiator is used to cool the engine oil like in most cars; however, oil pressure is probably near 70 psi and coolant pressure is near 15 psi. I was thinking if there is a leak in the cooling system, then I would see oil in the water not the other way around? Does this make sense?



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RodInNS

02-28-2007 07:38:33




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 Re: Ford 8700 Coolant in Oil in reply to bch7, 02-26-2007 21:55:01  
Yes, that's what "should" happen, but you never know. I'd disconnect the cooler lines and loop them so that you can run the engine, and then see what happens. I wouldn't just rule the cooler out...
Other than that, I was also thinking about the core plugs in the head. The ones under the valve cover? Were they changed? That could drop coolant in the oil. I suppose a sleeve could be leaking too, but I'd think that not too likely.
I believe if you read through the engine service manual some, you'll also find that some of those engines were sleeved from the factory. I think it was Ford's way of saving an otherwise good block that may have gotten a little out of tolerance, so they machined it out and dropped sleeves into it. These engines were denoted with a diamond (I think before and after) in the engine serial number, found on the pan rail.... Something to think about anyway. HTH.

Rod

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Larry NCKS

02-27-2007 03:47:31




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 Re: Ford 8700 Coolant in Oil in reply to bch7, 02-26-2007 21:55:01  
You are correct. Usually an oil cooler failure manifests itself in oil in the coolant for the reasons you stated.



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awhtx

02-27-2007 03:45:13




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 Re: Ford 8700 Coolant in Oil in reply to bch7, 02-26-2007 21:55:01  
When you kill the engine oil pressure goes away but coolant pressure remains. Maybe this is when it happens?



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