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OT 93 Chevy 1/2 ton Truck Problem

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DonCam

04-19-2007 05:32:59




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I have noticed that when I pull heavy loads with my truck my oil pressure jumps around and it seems my lifters aren't pumping up properly because my rockers are clacking. The truck has a 350 motor in it. This only seems to occur when I have the back end of the truck squatting some due to heavy loads. My oil pressure hasn't ever gotten below 30# so don't know why I would not get oil up top. I am trying to make sense of this, has anyone else experienced this type of problem? I have two thoughts of my own about what could be happening. One is that maybe my drain at the back of the engine in the lifter gallery is plugged off and when the truck is slanted back it is holding more oil than usual causing the oil pump to starve some. The other thought is that maybe I have a slight hole somewhere in the oil pickup and that hole is exposed when the truck is squatting down in the back? My next step will be to jack the front end of the truck up and see what happens.
I am hoping maybe someone else expereinced this and can lead me to problem quicker than pulling the motor apart.
Thanks,

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sotxbill

04-20-2007 06:32:33




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 Re: OT 93 Chevy 1/2 ton Truck Problem in reply to DonCam, 04-19-2007 05:32:59  
are you sure your not hearing clatter from the engine????.. this is due to heat, timing and gas pre-ignition....dirty plugs can contribute, stopped up air filter, dirty or low radiator also..low octane fuel also...



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Bob

04-20-2007 07:45:49




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 GOOD post sotxbill! in reply to sotxbill, 04-20-2007 06:32:33  
If the EGR is not functioning (electrical problems, vacuum problems, stuck EGR valve, or clogged passagesin the heads ot intake manifold), the engine will be more prone to pre-ignition and make all sorts of noise because of the lack of EGR flow. BTDT with that problem on a Chevy 350 of that era.

The "flaky" oil pressure gauge may be a separate (electrical) problem altogether.



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DonCam

04-20-2007 04:49:26




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 Re: OT 93 Chevy 1/2 ton Truck Problem in reply to DonCam, 04-19-2007 05:32:59  
I don't use Fram for anything because they are built cheap. I friend of mine dad is retired and looks for things to do. He cuts the different oil filters and checks out the innards. He stated that the fram oil filters are the cheapest built filters out of all of them. I use Wix myself.
I didn't think about all of the other holes in the lifter gallery. So that theory is out.



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Bob

04-19-2007 05:49:36




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 Re: OT 93 Chevy 1/2 ton Truck Problem in reply to DonCam, 04-19-2007 05:32:59  
....Well, the oil pickup tube on that engine is at the BACK, so MORE of the pickup tube is COVERED, and the oil is nearer to the level of the pump when the truck "squats" at the rear.

I would put a mechanical gauge on it, to see what the oil pressure is REALLY doing, to rule out ony electrical "gremlins".

If you are concerned about sludge in the valve covers or drain-back holes, it's pretty easy to pop the valve covers off and have a look.

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DonCam

04-19-2007 06:00:39




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 Re: OT 93 Chevy 1/2 ton Truck Problem in reply to Bob, 04-19-2007 05:49:36  
I know the oil pickup is in the back but does curve towards the front, maybe in that curve there is a small hole allowing air that's just a theory, nothing else too much makes sense. There is no sludge in my valve covers, I changed the gaskets not long ago, my thoughts is maybe there is a restriction in the lifter gallery which is causing it to hold alot of oil. Yes my next step will be to check the pressure with a mechanical guage.

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Bob

04-19-2007 08:37:48




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 Re: OT 93 Chevy 1/2 ton Truck Problem in reply to DonCam, 04-19-2007 06:00:39  
In normal operation, the oil pump AND the oil pickup AND tube on that engine are submerged in oil, at the deepest part of the sump, and a little squatting at the rear is NOT going to change that.

If, for some reason the pickup tube has fallen off altogether, that MIGHT cause the pump to suck air momentarily from time to time as the oil sloshes around.

Also, the tube could be intalled wrong, too far off of the "floor" of the oil pan. However, I don't think it could be tipped up a LARGE amount, as the rotating assembly would hit it.

Another thought... you do have it full of oil... (5 quarts with the small filter)... if you know this, OK, but it HAS happened where someone has put the wrong dipstick in an engine, making it APPEAR to have more oil in it than it actually does.

You say you had the valve covers off, and it was clean in there. Did you happen to check the oil return holes at the lower front and back of each head?

The oil from on top of the heads has to get through those holes to get back to the lifter valley, and THEN through a whole bunch of holes to get back to the crankcase.

If sludge WERE a problem, I would think it would be MUCH more likely to be plugging those 4 small, LONG passages in the heads than the multiple SHORT passageways from the lifter valley to the crankcase.

If you pull a valve cover again, and have a GOOD penlite, you shold be able to see down into the lifter valley through various holes in the head castings BETWEEN the little holes the pushrods come up through.

Post back and let us know what you figure out!

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Richard H.

04-19-2007 07:36:03




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 Re: OT 93 Chevy 1/2 ton Truck Problem in reply to DonCam, 04-19-2007 06:00:39  
Wonder if you could see them with the dist removed and a small mirror. There is a lot of bad talk around about Fram filters also if you use them. Seems they come apart inside.



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Bob

04-19-2007 08:24:43




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 Re: OT 93 Chevy 1/2 ton Truck Problem in reply to Richard H., 04-19-2007 07:36:03  
If a filter DID come apart (which I've never seen), the remains of the filter would have to pass through the oil galleries and bearings before getting to the oil pan.

Actually, to get in the lifter valley, and plug the holes that return oil from the lifter valley to the crankcase, the remains of the filter would have to pass THROUGH the hydraulic lifters, and that AIN'T gonna happen. No way. And, through the lifters is the ONLY way for FILTER DEBRIS to get up in the lifter valley.

Sludge is another matter, but there's LOTS of holes leading from the lifter valley down into the lower part of the engine, and it would take an engine sludged up beyond belief to plug all those holes!

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Richard H.

04-19-2007 19:13:19




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 Re: OT 93 Chevy 1/2 ton Truck Problem in reply to Bob, 04-19-2007 08:24:43  
Well ,OK I"ll call Fram and tell them not to do any recalls because BOB says he"s never seen it.



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Bob

04-20-2007 06:02:13




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 Re: OT 93 Chevy 1/2 ton Truck Problem in reply to Richard H., 04-19-2007 19:13:19  
Richard,

Stories like this go around all the time. Have you ever seen a failed oil filter, FRAM or otherwise, or have any direct knowledge of someone who did?



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Ron-MO

04-20-2007 11:14:14




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 Re: OT 93 Chevy 1/2 ton Truck Problem in reply to Bob, 04-20-2007 06:02:13  
I have never saw a failed filter, however when my 92 Chev. with a 350 (filter on the side due to 4wd) was near new I noticed it knocked when first starting. I talked to a tech about it and he asked what filter I used. I told him it was a fram and he told me to get that off and use something else as the fram did not have an anti-drainback valve to keep the oil from flowing back into the pan. Put a AC/Delco on it and the knocking stopped upon startup. It was having to refill the filter on every startup. That would not be a problem with a filter upright with the fitting up, but on any filter that sat sideways you have start with an empty filter. Just looking at the frams i have seen you can tell there is no rubber valve in it like some. I have never used a fram filter since.

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Bob

04-20-2007 11:33:30




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 Re: OT 93 Chevy 1/2 ton Truck Problem in reply to Ron-MO, 04-20-2007 11:14:14  
I am NOT defending Fram filters, or advocating any one brand over another.

I DO buy them from WaldoWorld and use them on my older vehicles.

I've never had a problem, and the ones I am using DO have the rubber ant-drainback valves.

Not sure if I have the numbers correct, but here goes. (Even if I have the actual filter NUMBERS wrong, the basic facts the story are TRUE.)

WIX made a 51060 (with a anti-drainback valve), and a 51061 (WITHOUT an anti-drainback valve).

The ones WITH the anti-drainback valve were used when the filter was REMOTELY mounted, and the ones WITHOUT the anti-drainback valve were used when the filter was mounted in the standard upright position, ON the engine.

Now, I believe they have more or less eliminated the filter WITHOUT the anti-drainback valve, and the catalog lists the filter WITH the anti-drainback valve for BOTH types of applications.

So, Fram is NOT alone in making both styles of filter, and I believe the ENGINE MANUFACTURER would have originally "spec'd" which type to use, and generally ALL manufacturers' filters for a given "app" would meet the design specified by the OEM engine builder.

Fram is a unit of Honeywell, and it seems hard to believe the filters can be as bad as some folks say. Wouldn't they tire of claims and litigation from failed engines if the filters were REALLY bad????

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