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This is just not my day....

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RodInNS

06-09-2007 09:53:30

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Hauling manure with the 7710... coming home over the road, down hill, full speed ahead. Start to smell something hot.... Start slowing down to stop and check it out, and I'm not slowing down, drifting to the right, one wheel locking and sliding.... Get her stopped and get out to look. Wheel bearing gone and the axle shaft hanging out 6 inches. Looks like bearing died, retainer worked loose, and axle went floating. Now to go rescue this damn thing off a hill and carry it home close to a mile. That just made my day.

Rod

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jmixigo

06-10-2007 07:27:52

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Re: This is just not my day.... in reply to RodInNS, 06-09-2007 09:53:30

Sorry to hear of your difficulty. I am glad that you didn't get scuffed up however. My Uncle Carl had two of those and he said once that the retainer should be "tight as you can get it, then a half a turn more."

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Bern

06-09-2007 15:25:45

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Unusual in reply to RodInNS, 06-09-2007 09:53:30

Very, very unusual for that tractor. Those rear axles are about bulletproof. Either someone was in there before and didn't get something tightened up properly, or it was run out of oil. That didn't "just happen". If it was run low on oil, it had to have been making some serious noise before it let lose. Since I'm betting you're a little more observant than that, I'd bet someone replaced an axle seal in the past and didn't get something right.

Let us know what you find.

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RodInNS

06-09-2007 15:42:44

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Re: Unusual in reply to Bern, 06-09-2007 15:25:45

That someone was me.... Yes, the seal was done. The brakes were done.... and I thought I had it torqued right, but I'll be a lot more observant this time. I did the left one years ago and it was never a problem since, but it's coming apart too.
I've always considered these axles to be bulletproof too.
It's never been run low low on oil, but a bit low at times in the distant past. Also consider that this tractor is tortured more than most. It's dualed... weighs close to 13000 with the duals... is turned to about 105 hp... and it's pulled hard. The spreader is likely over 15 tonne loaded.... and without front ballast will pretty well lift the front end.
I'll never say it had an easy life. If it ~could~ fail, it will.

In hindsight though, I'll admit to "approximating" the torque on the axle retainer bolt. Going form a poor memory.... it's something like 350-400?... I know it's more than any torque wrench I have. I'll have to beg or borrow one this time, unless I ge to "update" to the new shaft. Dunno yet.

This thing literally went from working to smoke in a couple minutes.... and from smelling smoke to free rolling in under a minute... and I just got stopped in time before the shaft parted completly. The wheels fell off as we lifted the tractor.

Thanks for the heads up though. I'll have to investigate this carefully.

Rod

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Bern

06-09-2007 16:49:39

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Re: Unusual in reply to RodInNS, 06-09-2007 15:42:44

300-350 is the spec. Hard to do by yourself. I usually just ran them in with a 1/2" impact for a few seconds. Never had one fail on me. Did you get the lock tab in place?

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RodInNS

06-10-2007 02:05:41

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Re: Unusual in reply to Bern, 06-09-2007 16:49:39

Yes, the lock tab was well in place. Seems to me, the best I recall.... there was a 230 pound monkey (me) working on a pipe of about 6 feet in length, and trying to do the math... whilst holding the trumpett in place against it's determined inclination to turn. Mabey I had too much on it? I had the hub and studs standing in the ground as I reefed on it.....
The left one, when it was done 10 years ago was torqued to spec, and hasn't seen these hands since... and hasn't failed yet. What I didn't do was delve into the clearance specs on the ring/pinion at that time... but since I didn't change anything, I didn't think it was necessary. Perhaps I erred on that one....
Anyhow, she's blocked under her drawbar housing now, wheels missing.... so both are coming off in case the other bearing IS bad. They'll both be done, and done to the letter of spec. Don't have time for this crap anymore. Bearings are cheap. I'd rather be chasing tail than changing bearings....

In any case... If you looked at all the pics I posted in stuck and troubled... the one that shows a closeup of the housing wallowed out... Do you feel that that is a problem, or just go with it? It hasn't effected the race; only the upper part of the ring that retains oil on the bearing. I can probably scrounge a housing, but it'll take time I don't really have, not to mention money.... and I can't see where it's really weakened? Let me know what you think. Thanks.

Rod

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Bern

06-10-2007 07:50:58

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Pics in reply to RodInNS, 06-10-2007 02:05:41

I can't find the pics you're talking about. I only saw the one of the two tractors back to back. Can you post a link of the others?

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RodInNS

06-10-2007 08:45:01

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Re: Pics in reply to Bern, 06-10-2007 07:50:58

This should do it...

Axle housing

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Bern

06-10-2007 12:05:53

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Re: Pics in reply to RodInNS, 06-10-2007 08:45:01

You likely overtorqued the bolt with a 6 foot cheater pipe. Did the bolt break, or simply come loose?

From the pic that I saw, I wouldn't worry about the worn spot in the case. As long as the bearing race is tight, that is the main thing.

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RodInNS

06-10-2007 14:09:31

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Re: Pics in reply to Bern, 06-10-2007 12:05:53

Yes, the bolt broke. Must have been way too tight. I was trying to guauge roughly how much force I put on it... but that's never an exact thing....
It doesn't look like there's any other damage though. I've got it apart now and the carrier looks fine. There is some damage to the splines on the shaft where they rode on the housing as the shaft came out, but that's just the end, and I think they'll file out OK. Strangely, the inner race of the bearing moved, and that's what actually did the damage to the housing. I don't think it spun, although I didn't pull it off yet. This is looking like just a set of bearings, a bolt, a lock tab and new seals. It did chew the lock tab pretty good.... Again, thanks for the help.

Rod

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awhtx

06-11-2007 03:25:54

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230 lbs. applied 6 ft. from the bolt = 1380 ft/lbs in reply to RodInNS, 06-10-2007 14:09:31

I guess that bolt was way overtorqued! This time use a 2 ft. cheater.

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Bern

06-11-2007 08:02:16

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Re: 230 lbs. applied 6 ft. from the bolt = 1380 ft in reply to awhtx, 06-11-2007 03:25:54

He didn't say that he was applying his full body weight to it. He couldn't have the way it was sitting. If he had gotten that kind of torque to it, he would have broken the bolt right then and there. Then he wouldn't have had the accident.

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RodInNS

06-11-2007 08:24:27

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Re: 230 lbs. applied 6 ft. from the bolt = 1380 ft in reply to Bern, 06-11-2007 08:02:16

You're right Bern. I was aiming for more like 50 pounds on it, which you well know is more than difficult enough on that thing. But... if I ended up at 75 pounds, then it was still way over torqued at 450. The other thing I didn't do at the time, and should have, was check the end play. If I had I might have found the bearings slack then. They looked OK, and I didn't change anything else other than the seal, so I just didn't bother. Paying for it now.... This is looking like a 500 buck adventure for bearings, cups, seal and shims.

Anothe question.... The diff preload. The good book is showing that a bridge is required to measure the clearance and set this preload. Is there any other practical method for this? Needless to say, I don't have the special tool. I just talked with the parts manager... and he's going to check with the service manager, and they will lend/rent or something, but it's still a pain/expense. They're about 300 miles away. Just wondering what you did with them over the years.
Thanks again,

Rod

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Bern

06-11-2007 14:21:41

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Re: 230 lbs. applied 6 ft. from the bolt = 1380 ft in reply to RodInNS, 06-11-2007 08:24:27

Never once shimmed a diff in those tractors in my 15 plus years of working on them. Never had to because they never went out. Unless you're changing housings, I'd simply use the shims that were in it. Bearings are manufactured with tolerances close enough that it doesn't matter.

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Jerry/MT

06-09-2007 12:39:37

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Re: This is just not my day.... in reply to RodInNS, 06-09-2007 09:53:30

Glad to hear you got it stopped safely. It's a darn sight easier to fix machines than people!

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murn ga

06-09-2007 11:32:24

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Re: This is just not my day.... in reply to RodInNS, 06-09-2007 09:53:30

A bit unusual for a rear brg to go out on that tractor. You think it might be tired of that s$ity job.

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Billy NY

06-09-2007 10:07:49

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Re: This is just not my day.... in reply to RodInNS, 06-09-2007 09:53:30

On my way out last evening, our farmer friend was headed out with the seeder, just before he came to the intersection, I could hear the noise, bearing went on one of the wheels. I first saw him headed into an access road to where the power lines are, thinking what in h#ll is he headed in there for with a seeder, most crops are planted by now anyway, yep, another bearing to fix

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soundguy

06-09-2007 10:06:31

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Re: This is just not my day.... in reply to RodInNS, 06-09-2007 09:53:30

I know it sucks.. but masn you got lucky you stopped when you did.. had that axle let go at full speed.. We mighta been reading about you vs talking with you.

Good luck... but you won't need it.. you'll have that beast up and running in no time.

soundguy

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RodInNS

06-09-2007 10:14:31

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Re: This is just not my day.... in reply to soundguy, 06-09-2007 10:06:31

Been thinking the last hour or so.... and now I'm glad I didn't send the old Zweegers mower frame to China.... It's got a clevis hitch on back, and I'm a gonna find out just how strong it is. The TS will lift her.... so we gonna see what happens.

Rod

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