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67 ford 4500 3 cyl deisel white smoke from exhust

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tractman

06-15-2007 13:48:39




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I have a 1967 ford 4500 industrial tractor, 3 cylinder diesel and hoping someone here can help me. The following problems started after the tractor overheated. I have white smoke coming from the exhaust, loss of power and had black liquid coming out between the exhaust stack & muffler. I thought it was oil but after reading on this site that it’s un-burnt diesel fuel and after running for a while the problem will stop and it did but now the oil in the pan is overfilled with what smells like diesel fuel.
Your help will be greatly appreciated.

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john_bud

06-15-2007 19:15:03




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 Re: 67 ford 4500 3 cyl deisel white smoke from exhust in reply to tractman, 06-15-2007 13:48:39  
I don't think that overheating can cause an injector to go bad. It is more likely that you had an injector stuck partially or completely open. That would make one cylinder run hot. Greasy radiator would make the engine overheat. A bad injector that is stuck open can overfill the crank case.

Don't run it until you know the problem and fix it. You may wipe out the brearings.

I also agree with Rod, that it could be a leaking seal for the pump. Check them out.

jb

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tractman

06-16-2007 09:18:10




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 Re: 67 ford 4500 3 cyl deisel white smoke from exhust in reply to john_bud, 06-15-2007 19:15:03  

john_bud said: (quoted from post at 19:15:03 06/15/07) jb


Rod and JB thank you both for your input.

Can anyone tell me what temperature this engine should run at? It only reaches 180 degrees after cleaning the radiator. I thought being a diesel it would run much hotter then 180 and was wondering if this low temp could cause a weak injector to not work properly.
Rod, I’m going to disconnect the lines on the injectors like suggested and see where that takes me. I don’t hear any knocking noise but I’m going to pull the valve cover and check things out. I turn the key and within a few revolutions the thing starts.

One last question at this point, is the injector pump removal and seal replacement something that I can do or does it take specialized tools and a qualified technician?

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RodInNS

06-16-2007 10:02:18




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 Re: 67 ford 4500 3 cyl deisel white smoke from exhust in reply to tractman, 06-16-2007 09:18:10  
Put it this way.... assuming that the tractor has one of the OEM thermostats, the range of opening temperatures was anywhere from 168 to 188. I often run the 180 or 188 in mine, and I find they're just absolute dogs that won't pull if you try running the 168. I like the 188's best, and keep the rad clean. If it's clean they'll stay cool while working hard in 100+ degree weather. Just make sure you keep them clean. With the lower temp stat you have a longer period of time for the heat to build since you start dissapating heat sooner. But, I've chopped silage in 100 degree heat with a 188 stat in my 7710 which is turned up close to 20 %, and she will stay cool.

ON the pump seal.... Yes, you can likely do that yourself. I've never changed the seal on one because the only pumps I've dealt with needed rebuilding, so I just sent them away.... but the seal doesn't look to hard, and I think you MIGHT get that from NewHolland. That's a big might. They generally want that stuff sent to a pump shop these days.
To make a long story short, to remove the pump, strip the lines off, NOTE where the scribe line is on the pump relative to the index marks on the engine front adapter plate, then get the small front timing cover off in front of the pump. You should see 3 little bolts in the center of the drive gear. Remove them. Then remove the 3 bolts holding the pump to the engine and pull the pump. Leave the gear in place, don't turn anything or move anything, and you'll be fine. Since you don't touch the timing, all you do to reinstall is put the pump back to it's original marks on the adapter plate and bolt everything back in place. Tickity boo....

Rod

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john_bud

06-16-2007 20:21:14




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 Re: 67 ford 4500 3 cyl deisel white smoke from exhust in reply to RodInNS, 06-16-2007 10:02:18  
Again I agree with Rod. (but I'm not sure what "Tickity boo" means)

I would recommend putting the timing at 22 degrees BTDC (or what ever the book calls for) on the #1 compression stroke. That way, if you do accidentally move, drop, take out or have a 5 year old hit the starter - you can get it back easier.

jb



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RodInNS

06-15-2007 14:38:57




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 Re: 67 ford 4500 3 cyl deisel white smoke from exhust in reply to tractman, 06-15-2007 13:48:39  
I'd bet dollars to donuts that the head gasket is blown or the head cracked. If the oil is rising, stop. That is more likely coolant.
Check to see if the coolant is low. Check to see if there are bubbles in the coolant when the engine is running.
Also.... when you say overheated. Was it physically severly overheated on the gauge... and known hot, or did it just push some coolant out?
If it was known hot that may have caused your problems. If it was just pushing coolant, then it's most likely the head gasket, which pressurised the cooling system and force the coolant out the overflow. Head gaskets are known to fail on those thigns from time to time....
At any rate, stop and find the problem before it takes the bearings out on you.

Rod

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tractman

06-15-2007 15:56:10




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 Re: 67 ford 4500 3 cyl deisel white smoke from exhust in reply to RodInNS, 06-15-2007 14:38:57  
I checked the oil level after it overheated and it was normal. I did a pressure test on the cooling system and it held 14lbs for over an hour. I found that the whole front of the radiator was covered with grease and dirt. I degreased and pressure washed the radiator and the engine. After doing the above I started the tractor and checked for bubbles in the radiator, none. I used the tractor for a few days and the only problem I had was black (oil or diesel fuel) coming from the stack, this problem went away. I checked the coolant after running the thing for a few hours and its fine, no loss
The problem now is the overfilled oil pan and a slight loss of power. I forgot to mention that after all this the engine won’t reach more then 180 degrees.
I would think that if water was entering the oil pan I would see bubbles on the dipstick and that’s not the case. The dipstick smells like diesel fuel and I’m wondering if I could be a bad fuel injector or is that wishful thinking?

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RodInNS

06-15-2007 18:35:25




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 Re: 67 ford 4500 3 cyl deisel white smoke from exhust in reply to tractman, 06-15-2007 15:56:10  
Well... since you're sure it isn't coolant, yes it could be a bad injector. It could also be a bad shaft seal in the pump. Do all cylinders seem to be equal in strength? If you crack a line open, one at a time while it's running, does the engine labor about the same on each? If you find one that doesn't drop as much, then you found the cylinder with the problem. The next question is whether the problem is the injector or the rings/piston.... You could swap injectors around and see if the problem follows the injector or not.
It's also possible that there's broken rings or a scored piston if the engine was run hot enough...
Are there any other unusual noises? Knocking? Banging? Sputting... like a bad valve? Tapping like a loose valve/rocker? Let's hope you're lucky and it's just a bad injector....

Rod

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