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Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
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651 Alternator (?) problem

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Bill F

07-01-2007 23:43:04




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I have a 1958 651, with a 12v system. Last year while bailing the lights faded and quit. I pulled the alternator (generic single wire-12v NAPA alternator), it bench tested as bad, and I replaced it. This year, after approx 15 hrs of work since replacement, same thing happened - same result, and another replacement. On first day, that replacement never charged at all. My last replacement alternator I installed, started the tractor, and checked the output post with my volt meter, which read 0.00. I unhooked the alternator wire and checked the output post, and got about 1.1v reading. Reconnected the alternator wire and it read 0.00 again.

Following the alternator wire, I see that it goes from the alternator to the ampmeter, and then to the starter solenoid. Wondering if the ampmeter (which has never worked in the 4 years I"ve owned the tractor) was shorting out the alt wire, I cut and connected the two wires to bypass the ampmeter. Still 0.00 output from the alt.

To my understanding, I should be getting 12v+ at the alternator wire post. (?) Any thoughts would be fantastic (it gets old having to chase the tractor around with the truck to jump start it! lol) Thanks in advance

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john in la

07-03-2007 04:21:03




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 Re: 651 Alternator (?) problem in reply to Bill F, 07-01-2007 23:43:04  
This is one of those cases that proves the point.....
A 12v conversion can be the best thing you ever did for your tractor; or your worse night mare because it was done wrong.

If the alternator is hooked to the starter side of the relay through the amp meter it will never work. First the power from the alt has no way to get to the battery to charge it; and second the alt is not hooked to power 24/7 so it will burn out.
We hook the alt at the starter relay because it is a conveniont way to hook it to the battery not because it has to be hook to the relay.

1) I would recheck all the wires. If it is done as bad as you say no telling what else is wrong. Get a Known Good alternator and battery and start over from scratch.

2) I would leave out the amp gauge because they do not work well on tractors any way. You can replace it with a volt gauge or install the dash idiot light since you have a 601.

I do not know if you are using the 3 wire or 1 wire set up for your alternator so you will have to pick the wiring diagram that suites your needs best. Since you have a 601 you should be using 601-8013wire but others will work.

12v conversion

wiring diagrams

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BillF

07-03-2007 22:23:29




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 Re: 651 Alternator (?) problem in reply to john in la, 07-03-2007 04:21:03  
John:

Thanks a million! I have a working charging system now, alternator cranking out 14+volts, etc. I actually found the article and diagrams you link in one of your old posts also . . . well written info, clear diagrams - incredibly valuable.

I'm grateful for the comments you and Rick took time to make.

Bill



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BillF

07-02-2007 23:16:09




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 Re: 651 Alternator (?) problem in reply to Bill F, 07-01-2007 23:43:04  
Rick:
Thanks for your thoughts - it made me take a closer look at the wiring, following each of the wires, etc. I found that the alternator wire was installed sometime prior to my ownership to run from the alternator to the ammeter, and then from the ammeter to the bottom side of the starter relay (on the same post as the cable to the starter). This post is, of course, not hot at any time except when the starter switch is depressed for cranking the starter. Am I correct that the alternator wire should go from the alternator, pass thru the ammeter, and then go to the top (hot) side of the relay on the same post as the positive battery cable??

Thanks again for any input - as always, a great learning experience!

Bill

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RickB

07-02-2007 03:40:17




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 Re: 651 Alternator (?) problem in reply to Bill F, 07-01-2007 23:43:04  
If the amp meter is internally open no charging voltage will reach the battery and the alternator will fail very quickly. Most alternators come with instructions NOT to run without being connected to a battery. If you don't have battery voltage measured at the alternator end of the wire connecting to alternator to the amp meter with the tractor not running you will continue to have a dead battery and failed alternators until that situation is corrected.

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BillF

07-02-2007 23:18:25




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 Re: 651 Alternator (?) problem in reply to RickB, 07-02-2007 03:40:17  
Rick:
Thanks for your thoughts - it made me take a closer look at the wiring, following each of the wires, etc. I found that the alternator wire was installed sometime prior to my ownership to run from the alternator to the ammeter, and then from the ammeter to the bottom side of the starter relay (on the same post as the cable to the starter). This post is, of course, not hot at any time except when the starter switch is depressed for cranking the starter. Am I correct that the alternator wire should go from the alternator, pass thru the ammeter, and then go to the top (hot) side of the relay on the same post as the positive battery cable??
Thanks again for any input - as always, a great learning experience!

Bill

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