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Starter End Play

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Michaels Dad

10-30-2007 11:43:36




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As long as I'm replacing the flywheel ring gear I thought I'd check the starter and Bendix. How much end play is acceptable on the starter motor? Right now I have 3/16" total float. This wasn't covered in the repair manual.

As long as it didn't stop on a bad tooth on the ring gear it seemed to work OK, but I was wondering what ruined the teeth on the ring gear.




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Michaels Dad

10-31-2007 14:19:00




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 Re: Starter End Play in reply to bill mar, 10-30-2007 11:43:36  
A 104 mile round, 3 fiber thrust washers $1.00, a starter with no end play and works.....priceless.

Now the thread is really dead.



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MarkB_MI

10-31-2007 17:32:34




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 Re: Starter End Play in reply to Michaels Dad, 10-31-2007 14:19:00  
My old starter had some extra washers that someone added to try to make up for the shot ring gear. Yes, it's a good idea to shim up the starter's thrust washer to reduce wear and tear on the ring gear.



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36 coupe

11-07-2007 13:33:21




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 Re: Starter End Play in reply to MarkB_MI, 10-31-2007 17:32:34  
I think the armature bars could short to the end plate if this washer was missing.Electric motors will fail to start if they have to much end play.



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Michaels Dad

10-31-2007 06:11:12




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 Re: Starter End Play in reply to Tom Nelson, 10-30-2007 11:43:36  
Again, just replaced the ring gear. Bendix is good, thrust washers are shot. Going to repair or replace them or the whole starter. If the rotor isn't held captive it would be free to move and if it was towards the rear end the gear on the Bendix wouldn't make full contact, thus chewing up the ring gear.

With that said, I've now answered my own question, so we can put this thread to bed.

Till the next problem, thanks for the input.

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Michaels Dad

10-31-2007 01:55:37




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 Re: Starter End Play in reply to awhtx, 10-30-2007 11:43:36  

RodInNS said: (quoted from post at 04:27:45 10/31/07) My experience with starters is that when they're worn out they don't work, and I don't think about them until that time... so I wouldn't worry about the end play unless you had it apart and saw something amiss.

Ring gears generally wear in 4 areas on 4 cylinder engines because the engines generally stop in 1 of 4 different places each time you shut them down... Technically you could remove the ring, rotate it 45 degrees and it would probably do you another 50 years unless it's completly missing a couple teeth in a row.... but the ring isn't all that expensive anyway, so I'd replace it if it was mine. Ring gears just wear. They're a perishable part.

Rod


The ring gear has been replaced. I haven't seen the old one yet (it's at a different location right now) but I'd like to get started off on the right foot. Right now I don't know if the axial play had anything to do with the teeth going bad on the ring. If the play is in excess, and the slack was to the trans. end, then the teeth on the Bendix may at one time may not have engaged the ring properly and knocked out the teeth.

I don't have the funds to just start replacing things, but if this was the cause of my problem, then I'll replace it. I'll take the end off the starter next and see if there is a problem with the thrust washers and go from there, but in the mean time all input is appreciated.

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RodInNS

10-31-2007 06:00:17




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 Re: Starter End Play in reply to Michaels Dad, 10-31-2007 01:55:37  
I think if I put the starter back on and it worked and started the tractor without any slips or clashes, I'd just plain leave it alone. Ring gears just wear out. The whole idea of their operation is that the bendix is rammed into the ring gear under full power and it turns until it finds a way home... That's going to wear the ring gear.
The first problem I'd expect with that starter is a bad bendix itself, and when that happens you'll hear the starter motor spin over and the engine not turn. I wouldn't worry until then.

Rod

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RodInNS

10-30-2007 20:27:45




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 Re: Starter End Play in reply to Michaels Dad, 10-30-2007 11:43:36  
My experience with starters is that when they're worn out they don't work, and I don't think about them until that time... so I wouldn't worry about the end play unless you had it apart and saw something amiss.
Ring gears generally wear in 4 areas on 4 cylinder engines because the engines generally stop in 1 of 4 different places each time you shut them down... Technically you could remove the ring, rotate it 45 degrees and it would probably do you another 50 years unless it's completly missing a couple teeth in a row.... but the ring isn't all that expensive anyway, so I'd replace it if it was mine. Ring gears just wear. They're a perishable part.

Rod

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Michaels Dad

10-30-2007 19:32:17




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 Re: Starter End Play in reply to Pernell, 10-30-2007 11:43:36  

GlenIdaho said: (quoted from post at 03:17:56 10/31/07) My book does not speak of end play either, but it does say that if there is any looseness in the end plates the bearings should be replaced. There are two thrust washers that may be worn. You might check them out. I would think this refers to side play rather that end play. Is the end play in the motor itself or the bendix?

With respect to the ring gear. Fifty years of service is alot of years work. Probably some hard work. You don't know how the previous owner treated his tractor. I have read that if a tractor has been converted to 12 volt, that an added stress can be put on the ring gear and result in broken teeth. Just some food for thought. Hopefully someone with starter experience will add so info.


The end play is in the motor, not the Bendix.

Radial clearance is nill.

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GlenIdaho

10-30-2007 19:17:56




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 Re: Starter End Play in reply to Michaels Dad, 10-30-2007 11:43:36  
My book does not speak of end play either, but it does say that if there is any looseness in the end plates the bearings should be replaced. There are two thrust washers that may be worn. You might check them out. I would think this refers to side play rather that end play. Is the end play in the motor itself or the bendix?

With respect to the ring gear. Fifty years of service is alot of years work. Probably some hard work. You don't know how the previous owner treated his tractor. I have read that if a tractor has been converted to 12 volt, that an added stress can be put on the ring gear and result in broken teeth. Just some food for thought. Hopefully someone with starter experience will add so info.

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