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850 Running on Choke

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Air Force One

01-05-2008 15:28:29




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My 850 Ford, after running 30-40 min, it starts spitting/sputtering and shuts off. Pull the choke out and Poof! It starts, then runs for about 1-3 min...Plenty of gas its getting, bowl is full and its a 12 volter. This happened before last week, I set the points and it ran fine for about two days, then back to this. I also have a coil that says "external resistor required". I am not sure if it has a resistor in line. Yes I know about the NAPA coil that needs no resistor. Its been about two years since I have installed new points condensor and cap and plugs.... Looking for some good advice. Thanks everyone...AF1

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Jerry/MT

01-06-2008 12:22:49




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 Re: 850 Running on Choke in reply to Air Force One, 01-05-2008 15:28:29  
When the engine stops on you, pull the wire out of the center of the distributor cap, hold it near a good ground and try to start. You should have a FAT, BLUISH-WHITE SPARK. If you don"t, the problem is most likely in the primary ignition circuit, which includes the ignition coil. A weak spark will ignite a richer mixture so that maybe why it start with the choke on. But you need to find the root cause of your problem. It could be incorrectly set points, burned corroded or pitted points, loose wire, bad connection ,or overheated coil, bad ignition switch, etc.

It sounds suspiciously like you have an overheated coil and you say you have the so called "12V coil" that needs to run with a resistor and you don"t know whether you have a resistor. A quick way to check is with a voltmeter. Pull the distributor cap off and crank the engine til the points close. Turn on the key and measure the voltage at the battery side of the ignition coil. If the voltage is battery voltage, ~12 V, then you don"t have a resistor in the primary circuit and you need a total reistance (Rcoil +R resistor) = 3 ohms.This generally means an external resistor of 1.5 ohms. If the voltage reads ~6 V then you have a resistor. (I am assuming you have a 12V system.)

Hers"s the reasoning.If the coil you have is run without a resistor, it will overheat in 30 -60 minutes, short internally and kill the ignition. It will cool down after some time and run for awhile and overheat and short again repeatedly until it finally burns out. These coils can only handle ~4 amps max so that "s why the resistor is required. The NAPA IC-14SB coil(~$15) has the resistance built in so it does not require the external resistance.
Also make sure that the small primary wire to the distributor is connected to the coil terminal with the same sign as your battery ground.(If you have an alternator, that should be negative ground.)This will maximize the spark power.

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Air Force One

01-06-2008 15:43:13




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 Re: 850 Running on Choke in reply to Jerry/MT, 01-06-2008 12:22:49  
Jerry...appreciate your post...very important stuff. I did run it today...three times about 45 min each time and it ran and started great. I adjusted the carb some and got it to run smoother than my F-150! I did also loosen up the gas cap as one advised me to do. No problems yet/. Other than that I just dont know. I'm going to replace the coil tomorrow when NAPA opens up. Will let everyone know what happens....#2 Question..this tractor was my dads..the proof meter is disconnected..cable is cut? How can I be sure the proofmeter works before I buy another cable? Enough questions for everyone. BUT! One more...the gauge right below the proofmeter is missing what goes there? I believe its the gas as I have oil and battery meter..Please advise...Air Force One out~~~

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GlenIdaho

01-06-2008 18:44:12




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 Re: 850 Running on Choke in reply to Air Force One, 01-06-2008 15:43:13  
third party image

AF1; right below the proofmeter should be the Temp gauge.



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Air Force One

01-06-2008 19:49:42




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 Re: 850 Running on Choke in reply to GlenIdaho, 01-06-2008 18:44:12  
Geezzzz Louise Glen..what are you doing this this tractor? Pulling Caskets? Smoother than a rabbits belly! Got which one Im missing now. thanks as alway.. AF1



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GlenIdaho

01-06-2008 20:02:18




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 Re: 850 Running on Choke in reply to Air Force One, 01-06-2008 19:49:42  
third party image

Hey AF1; Can you believe it all started when I went to fix a rear main seal leak. Needless to say it needed alot more. Without being to proud, here's another photo showing where I'm at now. Working on the loader, repairing and rebuilding now. I guess I did get carried away, but it's been fun.

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Air Force One

01-07-2008 18:51:38




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 Re: 850 Running on Choke in reply to GlenIdaho, 01-06-2008 20:02:18  
Looks like a cold weather project..very sweet tractor! I see lots of parts I need! :0) great tractor! thanks for the reply and pic



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Jerry/MT

01-06-2008 17:31:50




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 Re: 850 Running on Choke in reply to Air Force One, 01-06-2008 15:43:13  
You could chuck the broken cable in an electric drill and see if the proofmeter works before you replace the cable. Just make sure you have it turning the right way.
I"ll have to defer to someone else about your gauge question since I"m not familiar with the 800 Series Fords but I"d venture a guess that it"s coolant temperature since you say the oil pressure and ammeter are taken.



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larry cook

01-06-2008 08:03:57




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 Re: 850 Running on Choke in reply to Air Force One, 01-05-2008 15:28:29  
coil. had the same thing happen to me recently, although it was on my 9/2/8n. coil would get hot and tractor threw a fit, let it cool off and ran like a champ. changed the coil, no problem since.
larryc



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Air Force One

01-06-2008 05:51:38




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 Re: 850 Running on Choke in reply to Air Force One, 01-05-2008 15:28:29  
If it shuts off, then only starts by pulling out choke (eengin is warm) then why would a bad coil cause this? I start it (right back) up by pulling the choke for a mili-second?? After starting it runs approx 30-45 seconds and back to the dreaded cycle???



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GlenIdaho

01-06-2008 07:28:42




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 Re: 850 Running on Choke in reply to Air Force One, 01-06-2008 05:51:38  
AF1;

Your problem could indeed be fuel related or coil related. Based on the information given it is most likely the coil. There is a reason why the manufacturer of your coil put the information, "resistor required" on you coil. If you run it without the resistor eventually the coil is going to suffer the effects. That is why Old has suggested the coil as being the problem. Go ahead and replace it. It's only $15.00. If that does not solve the problem then at least you can be assured you have the right coil anyway. Then, if the spark is okay, you can move on to the fuel issue. Of course, you can take the opposite approach and start with the fuel making sure all lines are clear, cleaning and or rebuilding the carb etc. And then eventually when your coil fails you can replace it.

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Jrry

01-06-2008 05:13:12




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 Re: 850 Running on Choke in reply to Air Force One, 01-05-2008 15:28:29  
Loosen your gas cap and try it. My 950 does that if I tighten the gas cap too tight.



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GlenIdaho

01-05-2008 20:00:41




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 Re: 850 Running on Choke in reply to Air Force One, 01-05-2008 15:28:29  
Hello AF1;

From your previous posts on 12/26/07 you said you did not have an external resistor, so that is probably as Old says, your coil is fried. That's where I would start. Get that Napa coil and you'll probably fix the problem.



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bendee

01-05-2008 18:30:49




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 Re: 850 Running on Choke in reply to Air Force One, 01-05-2008 15:28:29  
To me it indicates fuel,spits and splutters.electrical seems to be a definite stop.
water or dirty carb,air cleaner.



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old

01-05-2008 18:41:38




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 Re: 850 Running on Choke in reply to bendee, 01-05-2008 18:30:49  
A coil that is going bad will do the same thing. I know I have had it happen a few times over the past 30-40 years. Coil gets hot and as it does the spark goes from good to weak to no spark. Let it cool down and you have a good spark till it gets hot again and there you go again



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bendee

01-05-2008 18:30:34




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 Re: 850 Running on Choke in reply to Air Force One, 01-05-2008 15:28:29  
To me it indicates fuel,spits and splutters.electrical seems to be a definite stop.
water or dirty carb,air cleaner.



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Air Force One

01-05-2008 16:40:49




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 Re: 850 Running on Choke in reply to Air Force One, 01-05-2008 15:28:29  
Its not water in gas, as its fresh gas! And its a 12 volt autzone coil, but it says external resistor required. Could it be the points?? I adjusted them as it required...ran great for a day now back to the omen..



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old

01-05-2008 18:14:15




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 Re: 850 Running on Choke in reply to Air Force One, 01-05-2008 16:40:49  
But do you have the external resister hooked up??? If you don't then most likely you have blown the coil. It only takes a few hours running a 6 volt coil on 12 volts to blow one and since it says external resister needed on it then its a 6 volt coil and you probably have smoke tested it. And once you let the smoke out its no good

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Air Force One

01-06-2008 05:47:39




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 Re: 850 Running on Choke in reply to old, 01-05-2008 18:14:15  
Its been running about a year on this resistor (less coil. Its a 12 volt coil though. I will pull it out in the bright sunlight with drop lite to see if I can find a resistor...something tells me my father did not put on one when he went to 12 volts years ago. Will also loosen up the gas cap, and will check the points like I did last week. I put fresh gas in it too, and I had to drain the tank to put my new fuel shut off on it so I know the tank was dry. Other than a complete rebuild and other ideas out there. Thanks again for everyones look. Living in Florida you would think that Soundguy could drop by one day to take a looksie but he does not live in the read florida (Panhandle) :0) thanks!

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old

01-06-2008 08:08:36




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 Re: 850 Running on Choke in reply to Air Force One, 01-06-2008 05:47:39  
Yep as far as that coil some will work just fine for years but really need a resister and others will not . A true 12 volt coil does not need a resister. But one that says it needs one is not a true 12 volt coil or it would not say it needed a resister. If I where to bet as to the fix on your tractor I would say its the coil.

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old

01-05-2008 16:23:30




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 Re: 850 Running on Choke in reply to Air Force One, 01-05-2008 15:28:29  
That amount of time sound just right for a coil going south on you. If in fact its a 6 volt coil on 12 volts they will heat up and do just that. Start it up and run it till it dies and then check for spark. Do not wait so much as a minute to do that or if its the coil it will cool back down and you will have spark again. My 841 did that years ago and I put a Chev coil on it from a junk car I had and it has run well ever since. Be me I like to use what I have on hand and maybe save a few good parts from becoming scrap

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trucker40

01-05-2008 16:16:27




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 Re: 850 Running on Choke in reply to Air Force One, 01-05-2008 15:28:29  
I think it might be somr water in the gas.I was using my H farmall this afternoon,had about the same problem.I drained some water out of the sediment bowl and the carb,put it together,pulled the choke and got it started,by the time I was done with it was running good.



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