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Why is coolant coming out of the rocker arm on my 961??

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hzl6cm

01-06-2008 09:22:11




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Finally figure out yesterday why my 961 wouldn't start - no compression (30 lbs or less) in cylinder 2, 3 & 4 (130 lbs in 1. This tractor quite running on me last fall right after I was done mowing a field and was driving back to the barn. It was extremely annoying since it would fire and almost start but never quite run. I ended up replacing plugs, points, condenser, rotor, distributor cap, set the timing and rebuilding the carburetor - all with no change.. I ended up parking the tractor in the shed and buying a nice little Jubilee to finish the fall mowing and to blade my 1/4 mile long driveway this winter since I needed to finish building a workshop for my wife and didn't have any more time for the tractor. Yesterday, since it was a rare (for Missouri) 60 degree day in early January I pulled the tractor out of the shed and, for lack of anything else to check, checked the compression (I hadn't done that earlier since it was running fine before it quite). Today (since it was still 60 and I could work outside in my shirtsleeves) I pulled everything off of the tractor in preparation for pulling the head. This was somewhat difficult because the tractor has a loader and the frame of the loader has three bars which completely wrap around the sides and front of the tractor and because the tractor has a factory power steering unit. Once I got the rocker cover off I cranked the engine over to make sure the valves were opening and closing (which they were) and saw coolant coming out of the rocker arms on to the top of the push rods. Any guess as to what would cause this? Would it be a blown cylinder gasket (best case scenario) or a cracked head or something else I haven't considered. Thanks.

Kevin

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hzl6cm

01-06-2008 19:10:35




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 Re: Why is coolant coming out of the rocker arm on my 961?? in reply to NWMO 901 SOS, 01-06-2008 09:22:11  
Thanks! It does help, I was considering doing something similar since it didn't look like I could install the valve cover with the tank in place.



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Jim in Ny

01-06-2008 18:57:51




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 Re: Why is coolant coming out of the rocker arm on my 961?? in reply to hzl6cm, 01-06-2008 09:22:11  
When running the valve(s) lash HOT adjustments you can always set up a remote gallon container and run a gravity feed line to the carb and retorque/assemble as necessary after warming to operating temps -- the last time I did this (because of loader arms, ect. ) I used a windshield anti-freeze container and a dill valve (long truck tire valve with the guts removed) placed in the cap with a clear plastic line to the carb -- works great and you don't have to go through the tank being removed umpteen times. Just remember to place your container and fuel lines in a good, safe place away from exhaust and heat, ect. the local NH dealer/shop uses a similar setup on all their head and under work saves alot of time and makes the repairs much, much easier.Hope this helps

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hzl6cm

01-06-2008 17:09:24




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 Re: Why is coolant coming out of the rocker arm on my 961?? in reply to ED H.-OH, 01-06-2008 09:22:11  
Thanks for all of the advice, I too use a good quality beam type wrench. I do have one question though - can I install the valve cover with the tank in place? Or will I have to pull the tank again after starting and warming the tractor up so that I can re-torque? I had been wondering about re-torquing so thanks for bringing that up.



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ErnieDD

01-06-2008 16:04:03




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 Re: Why is coolant coming out of the rocker arm on my 961?? in reply to hzl6cm, 01-06-2008 09:22:11  
When you reassemble, take the head torque up in 2 stages, 3/4 way and then go around to the full amount. Set your valve lash cold. Start engine and warm up. Watch oil pressure etc. After is hot (stadard operating temperature), shut down and allow to cool, retorque to standard, recheck your valve lash. Button up. You will be suprised at how much you can retorque.

BTW, your take off torque is no way near apply torque.

Chase the threads with a tap and lightly oil.

I personally have no use for a clicker wrench, mine is a bending beam, clickers malfunction and uless you have a way to calibrate I would not trust.

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hzl6cm

01-06-2008 15:23:11




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 Re: Why is coolant coming out of the rocker arm on my 961?? in reply to soundguy, 01-06-2008 09:22:11  
You are probably right about the coolant being at the bottom of the oil pan, I realized that later while looking at the oil circulation diagram in the manual.
I pulled the head and the gasket was comletely blown between cylinder 3 and 4. It also must not have been a tight fit between 2 and 3 since I couldn't see the pattern of the head gasket in that area of the head. It seamed like the head bolts may have been a bit loose when I took them out since they broke loose easier than I expected. I'll check the head for flateness, maybe have it decked and put it back together. The engine must have been rebuilt at some point in time since it appears to have very little wear. There is no carbon buildup on the head or pistons, no ridge at the tops of the cylinder liners and the valves are still sticking up out of the head quite a bit and don't have any carbon on them.

Kevin

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kyhayman

01-06-2008 11:41:48




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 Re: Why is coolant coming out of the rocker arm on my 961?? in reply to hzl6cm, 01-06-2008 09:22:11  
Is it possible that the water is in the bottom of the oil pan, up to the level of the oil pump sump? It may have settled out over time showing oil on the dipstick but water underneath. If thats the case could be block, head, or head gasket. Im inclinded to say head or a hole in a cylinder wall. With that many cylinders low on compression I'm thinking block.



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hzl6cm

01-06-2008 09:50:20




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 Re: Why is coolant coming out of the rocker arm on my 961?? in reply to RickB, 01-06-2008 09:22:11  
I didn't see in evidence of water in the oil when I pulled the dipstick, but that must be it. Are these heads prone to cracking or do I more likely have a blown head gasket?
Now that I have everything apart I will have to have the gas tank flushed and coated, rebuild the power steering pump and add the 12 volt conversion kit that I had ordered (when I got the tractor it had a 12 volt battery installed and the generator unhooked), etc. etc....

Kevin

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john in la

01-06-2008 09:29:50




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 Re: Why is coolant coming out of the rocker arm on my 961?? in reply to hzl6cm, 01-06-2008 09:22:11  
That sounds odd because there is no water any where around the rocker shaft.
The only thing I can think of is water in the oil. The oil pump is pumping water out of the oil pan threw the rocker arms.



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