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ignition/carb ???

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NWMO 901 SOS

01-26-2008 22:45:39




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Hello all,

I ran the tractor for about half an hour Friday, started missing. Put old coil on and thought it ran better, but in short order it died. I thought it might have something to do with driving over a pile of dirt I was dragging into the pasture, pretty steep and pulling wheelies a bit. Last time it died it was on flat ground and would not start. Checked spark at coil, looked ok/marginal (jumping 3/16" gap), checked spark at plug, looked ok. Pulled air cleaner bowl and cleaned. Pulled air pipe off cleaner so it bypassed the cleaner all together. Still nothing. Had good flow to carb as I checked by pulling carb drain, and when I choked it I got fuel out the air side of the carb. Still nothing. I was jumping off a 12V battery so I was getting plenty of spin. Pulled plugs and put a little gas in each cylinder. Still didn't fire, but with good spark I got frusturated and pulled the air cleaner and carb. Took both apart and am cleaning/rebuilding to put back on.
I know timing is the only other thing to worry about and given the off and on nature of the problem, didn't figure I had jumped a tooth.
Sorry for the long post. The old fiber I removed was from my first effort some 17 years ago. Used fabric from furnace filter. Didn't remember where I got that idea, but when I called the local New Holland dealer, they said it was what they recommended because they couldn't find a supplier for the other. Probably used it last time on their advice. I've got a manual and have read and better understand the carb, initial settings, etc.
I know tired engine, lack of compression can act this way as well. I am sure this is no substitue for checking compression, but it seemed to pull a pretty good vacuum when I put my hand over the air intake.


Sorry it has taken two weeks to get back. YT shipped my parts and I got them in one week, but the weather and other obiligations kept me from working very much on the tractor.

As previously reported, I got Berryman chem dip and a new carb kit and went through the carb. I also ordered the new wire fabric for my air filter and went through it. My biggest frustration was putting a brass ball valve in my fuel line. After asking here, I went with a flared end gas fitting of the proper size. I cut a small piece of the metal fuel line out and added the valve. It leaked some the first try, so today I cleaned it up and tried again. I don't want to claim victory yet, but it wasn't leaking today after I got it back together. I have done nothing to the points.

After getting it back together this afternoon, I tried starting it and it fired right up. I drove it out to the barn and it seems to be more responsive than before and idle lower w/o dieing. I will check the spark strength tomorrow just for curiosity sakes. TSC is suppose to be getting points/condensor in this week and I am going to replace them. I look forward to seeing a fat blue spark jump an inch or so. Obviously my lack of starting could have been heat related as I had been operating the tractor. I hope to find a similar spark to what I previously described when I check tomorrow. That would give me some confidence the problem had been fuel related.

I will let you know how new points/condensor change things.

Chris


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NWMO 901 SOS

01-28-2008 16:58:12




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 Re: ignition/carb ??? in reply to soundguy, 01-26-2008 22:45:39  

Jerry/MT said: (quoted from post at 00:41:44 01/28/08) The manufacturer usually provide this data but on these old machines it"s hard to come by. My gut feel is that your 50 degrees is a bit low. I think it would be more like 56-58o. But if it"s a factory number, I"d use that.


Jerry,

I was guesstimating because I hadn't looked at it in a while. The owner's manual calls for 58-63 @ 400-475 RPM. Thanks for the help.

Chris

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NWMO 901 SOS

01-27-2008 17:35:00




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 Re: ignition/carb ??? in reply to NWMO 901 SOS, 01-26-2008 22:45:39  
Hello Jerry,

I'm sorry I didn't provide the model. I copied part of the old post, but didn't want to pull everything forward. I have a 1960 971 with a 6V system. When I had the genny rebuilt (years ago) they tweaked it to 8+V and I run an 8V battery. I am probably jumping 3/16" - 1/4" or so, but I wouldn't describe the spark as white or blue. I will also say, when I looked at the dwell with these old points, it was nill. As I have studied the distributor cam and points, it would seem worn points adjusted to the proper gap may decrease dwell?? I assume the 50 degrees I am looking for on the dwell meter indicates 50 degrees of the points in contact with one another, thus building voltage in the coil that will spark when the points open. With less dwell, it would seem a shorter time closed and thus less voltage from the coil. At any rate, it runs fine now, but for $12 I will probably change the points/condensor. Pretty much the last piece of the ignition system to update and will let me check my dwell meter to see if it works or not.

Chris

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Jerry/MT

01-27-2008 21:41:44




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 Re: ignition/carb ??? in reply to NWMO 901 SOS, 01-27-2008 17:35:00  
The color should be like a lighting bolt - bluish-white(Or is that whitish-blue?). If its reddish or yellowish or orangey that"s not good. You are correct in your understanding of the dwell angle. Theere are at least two factors that effect the dwell change due to wear; the wear on the points themselves and then wear on the rubbing block (over the long term, the cam itself also wears and is a problem on some of these old machines). The higher the dwell the longer the points are closed. If you set the dwell too high the points will burn;too low and the spark is weak. Where did you get your dwell angle from? Is it in your factory specs? I prefer to use dwell because it allows you to set used points correctly, but it"s hard to find out what the actual dwell angle is because it depends on the cam lobe and the geometry of the points. The manufacturer usually provide this data but on these old machines it"s hard to come by. My gut feel is that your 50 degrees is a bit low. I think it would be more like 56-58o. But if it"s a factory number, I"d use that.

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Jerry/MT

01-27-2008 16:51:49




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 Re: ignition/carb ??? in reply to NWMO 901 SOS, 01-26-2008 22:45:39  
You didn"t say what model tractor you had.

If you have an ignition system on your tractor that provides a spark that jumps a one inch gap, you better get a patent on it! But a fat bluish white spark at 3/16"-1/4" is what you have to have to have good spark. What is the voltage of your electrical system and is your coil matched to the system voltage? A 6 volt coil with a 12v system and no current limiting resisitor will give you problems caused by overheating the coil. Nice hot spark to start but the coil overheats, shorts out and kills the ignition in about 30 minutes.

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NWMO 901 SOS

01-27-2008 16:03:51




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 Re: ignition/carb ??? in reply to NWMO 901 SOS, 01-26-2008 22:45:39  
hey all,

I looked at the spark from the coil today and it jumped the same distance cold as it did when it wouldn't start. Pretty confident I had some type of problem with the carb. It starts nice now and sounds good. Here is a pic of the ball valve I put on the fuel line. I still have a very very slow leak. I got my new tach cable from YT as well, so before long I will have some idea of hours I use it and RPM. New oil and temp guage going on as well. Then I hope to wire a light in for the charge indicator. Have a good week and stay safe.

third party image

Chris

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