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What's It Called, And Where To Find One

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Michaels Dad

02-13-2008 06:52:19

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After a recent tractor flip over fatality near me, someone messing up their hydraulics on their 3 point pulling a vehicle out of the snow, and my pulling trees and stumps I have to do something besides using my drawbar.

I�m looking for the plate that goes under the rear end, to do my pulling with, but I don�t know what it�s called, and haven�t been able to find one yet.

Tractor is a 640.

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Michaels Dad

02-16-2008 08:47:32

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Re: Swinging Drawbar in reply to steve wi, 02-13-2008 06:52:19

steve n carol said: (quoted from post at 06:52:33 02/16/08) well, I guess that you are NOT driving up and down the ravine. As to bolts. Go to CHN (CASE NEW HOLLAND) website, look at their parts page. You can actually find Your tractor and perhaps most of the parts that attach. On some of this stuff it shows the bolt size, thread pitch, and hex size. You can select these (with a checkmark) and print out a copy (store list)!

If you are bolting to the tractor, I would use Grade 8. There will be lots of shear action happing! That's all I know about the swinging drawbar....sl

I went back to CNH and drilled deeper and found everything I was looking for as far as size and number of bolts.

Use a keyword on search instead of hunting and pecking.

Old time stuff? The auto parts store 22+miles from me up there doesn't take credit or debit cards.

You can go to our general store or any business in town and charge items, and they still write it down on the old time sales slip that goes into the box. End of the month, they send you the total bill for the month. Scanners, not on your life, they don't even have sidewalks yet.

Thanks to all for the great input.

T

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steve n carol

02-16-2008 07:58:40

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HANK's hardware in Temecula, Calif. in reply to Michaels Dad, 02-13-2008 06:52:19

I gotta say it!

There is a hardware store in the next town over (20mi), That takes me back 35-40 years! I have bought more nuts and blots, rivets, special tools, (all in one stop!). Any grade, size, pitch, head config. HItch pins, Lynch pins, Pins and needles, goes on and on! Bought most of my equipment fasteners there at CONSIDERABLY less than the dealer, a few blocks away. Just had to say it! AND, some of the sales help can tell you how to shim a connecting rod on a model A, (after they sell you the shimstock)!

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steve n carol

02-15-2008 16:52:33

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Re: Swinging Drawbar in reply to CENTAUR, 02-13-2008 06:52:19

well, I guess that you are NOT driving up and down the ravine. As to bolts. Go to CHN (CASE NEW HOLLAND) website, look at their parts page. You can actually find Your tractor and perhaps most of the parts that attach. On some of this stuff it shows the bolt size, thread pitch, and hex size. You can select these (with a checkmark) and print out a copy (store list)!

If you are bolting to the tractor, I would use Grade 8. There will be lots of shear action happing! That's all I know about the swinging drawbar....sl

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Michaels Dad

02-15-2008 11:24:50

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Re: Swinging Drawbar in reply to cab72111, 02-13-2008 06:52:19

steve n carol said: (quoted from post at 22:43:30 02/15/08) Michaels dad.... much truly GOOD advise hasben given here!!! I do see some more room for comment. Your concern about 'flipping' your machine IS a valid one!
Now, you have added a ravine..... What is the % on the slope? (How steep is it). This adds more rules..... plus anyone that is standing in the way of a tumbling (flipped or overturned and rolling) tractor).
I work in ravines. I have been in ravines on my rubber tired FORD (2WD) tractor. I don't like it! Origionaly, I purchased a crawler for this work and the FORD for road maintanace, (never could spell that word).
Hopefuly, your ravine is not too steep, your tractor is 4wd, has a loader in the front and you have life insurance (for your survivors).

Would a winch on a truck work?

Where in the SAHARA is your property???

(warning, author of the above did not proof read or edit this post)

Never did understand % when it came to grades, but I can tell you both sides are at least 50-60 degrees and greater, and the bottom is anywhere from 2-10 feet wide at the bottom. The bottom is not flat and cannot be accessed from anywhere on my property. All the pulling is done with the 2wd tractor on the top and away from the edge.

The property is on the side of a small mountain (Wernette) in Utopia, Texas.

We are trying to get rid of the water sucking cedars, and some of the dead stuff that has piled up over the years. When it does rain, there is the chance that this debris would hold back the water, then break and take out fences and such on property below mine.

Still need help on bolts...sizes, quantity and whether or not to use grade 8.

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RodInNS

02-15-2008 22:25:23

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Re: Swinging Drawbar in reply to Michaels Dad, 02-15-2008 11:24:50

I'm not sure what bolts that will take. You can look in NH's parts listing but I've got my doubts that it will actually tell you though it might...
If you want to do this all in one trip I'd get a selection of 7/16", 1/2", 9/16" 5/8" and 3/4" UNC grade 5 cap screws that are 2-3" in length. If you can get them threaded the full length then longer is better, but you probably won't find them fully threaded. 5/8" is the most likely size you'll need. Again, I'm not sure on that particular housing. The larger tractors use 5/8 and 7/8 bolts...
I wouldn't use grade 8 for the simple reason that if it does snap later on you have no easy way to get it out. Grade 5 can at least be drilled.
Go with the longest bolt that you can get into the housing without bottoming in the hole. I get the longer bolts and trim them off with the hacksaw. Use flat and lock washers if there is room....

Rod

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steve n carol

02-15-2008 08:43:30

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Re: Swinging Drawbar in reply to Michaels Dad, 02-13-2008 06:52:19

Michaels dad.... much truly GOOD advise hasben given here!!! I do see some more room for comment. Your concern about 'flipping' your machine IS a valid one!
Now, you have added a ravine..... What is the % on the slope? (How steep is it). This adds more rules..... plus anyone that is standing in the way of a tumbling (flipped or overturned and rolling) tractor).
I work in ravines. I have been in ravines on my rubber tired FORD (2WD) tractor. I don't like it! Origionaly, I purchased a crawler for this work and the FORD for road maintanace, (never could spell that word).
Hopefuly, your ravine is not too steep, your tractor is 4wd, has a loader in the front and you have life insurance (for your survivors).

Would a winch on a truck work?

Where in the SAHARA is your property???

(warning, author of the above did not proof read or edit this post)

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Michaels Dad

02-14-2008 19:27:21

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Re: Swinging Drawbar in reply to Mr. Bob, 02-13-2008 06:52:19

Thanks for the info, good things to keep in mind.
Can't get in the bottom of the ravine, so it's all up hill.

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Michaels Dad

02-14-2008 14:02:32

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Re: Swinging Drawbar in reply to john in la, 02-13-2008 06:52:19

Wayneb said: (quoted from post at 03:02:04 02/15/08) I go one step further. Each of my tractors has a swinging drawbar. I buy a clevis that mounts over the swinging drawbar end. I usually pull trees with two or more chains. 3 chains works best.

Wrapp chains as high as you can reach. A successful tree pull must bend over tree and loosen root system.

I take chains and double wrap small trees, sometimes 2-3 trees to a chain, then daisy chain (chains) so that no tree top will bend over and hit my tractor--or me. I use at least 3/8" link chain.

Hook up chains to trees first, daisy chained and spaced chains so that you are only pulling one tree at a time. Then I back tractor up and connect chain at drawbar. Pull multiple trees near pile for manual piling or in open area for stacking with loader tractor.

One thing about tree pulling. Do it with wet ground works best, low air pressure in rear tires and plenty of chain lenth. Getting slapped with a tree top can really peeve you off. Pulling trees = no stumps to grind.

Let the tractor do the work, not your tires. When it spins, you"re only making a mess. Course don"t make a run so fast, you"re jerked to a stop. Be safe.

Wayne

Never tried pulling them down. What I'm dealing with is Mountain Juniper AK Cedar, usually more of a large bush than a tree. Pulling them out of a ravine 10-40 feet down on the incline, no wet ground, hasn't rained but 1" at my place since last Sept.

Been cutting off at ground level, threading as many as possible on a looped rope, pulling up to a pile, reaching down, taking one loop off the trailer ball and pulling the rope out. If I'm lucky my wife is there to stay in the ravine to make the hookup.

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WayneB

02-14-2008 19:01:47

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Re: Swinging Drawbar in reply to Michaels Dad, 02-14-2008 14:02:32

When pulling trees and bushes, factor leverage (chain high to maximize loosening of soil), sequence (one at a time or timed daisy chain) and momentum of maximim traction (let the tractor lean on the tree till it loosens, vice spinning against load) and finally safety (enough chain to keep tree tops from beating you senseless, using terrian -pull down hill-- just be safe) If its not wet where you are, then likely roots are not emersed in clay, but in sandy loam. Pulling in sandy soil is similar to wet soil.
If tree does not pull in one direction, change direction, and continue loosening root system. If you don't break it off, its coming out.
Finally, use common sense to pull trees no larger than your tractor can pull, using rule of thumb you can pull a little less than 2" on average for every 10 HP.
Cannot emphasize enough - use long strong chains.
Wayne

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36 coupe

02-15-2008 01:47:07

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Re: Swinging Drawbar in reply to WayneB, 02-14-2008 19:01:47

This type of work should be done with a dozer with over head protection for the operator.Misjudge the tree height and its on you.

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Michaels Dad

02-14-2008 12:05:16

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Re: What's It Called, And Where To Find One in reply to RodInNS, 02-13-2008 06:52:19

OK, now that I've got the kit coming and the tractor is 300 miles away, and there is not the greatest selection of bolts in that area can anyone tell me the sizes and how many I'll need to bolt this kit up.

Thanks

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hogs

02-13-2008 15:53:43

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Re: What's It Called, And Where To Find One in reply to Michaels Dad, 02-13-2008 06:52:19

I got mind at Running hardware

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RodInNS

02-13-2008 13:41:45

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Re: What's It Called, And Where To Find One in reply to Michaels Dad, 02-13-2008 06:52:19

Dell has it pictured...
It won't entirely prevent overturns though. Pulling from a lower attachment point lessens the chances of overturn but it doesn't eliminate it.
I've had many, MANY much bigger tractors rise up from straight out pulling and carrying heavy drawbar loads. You just let off before they go too far... I wouldn't pull anything from a linkage bar. They bend if you put weight on them and they wear and tear at the lift arms if you pull with them. The swinging drawbar is the only answer for serious pulling.

Rod

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Michaels Dad

02-13-2008 11:01:53

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Re: What's It Called, And Where To Find One in reply to john_bud, 02-13-2008 06:52:19

souNdguy said: (quoted from post at 00:48:12 02/14/08) Are you using your 11-hole 3pt drawbar right now?

A big advantage over the diffy mount is that it won't raise up on you or rotate like a 3pt raybar can if you don't use the correct stabilizers and stays.. etc..

soundguy

Yes, I'm using it now. Got stabilizer arms running from it to under the axles and a device to keep the drawbar from rotating.

Haven't had any trouble with it raising up yet.

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souNdguy

02-13-2008 11:26:36

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Re: What's It Called, And Where To Find One in reply to Michaels Dad, 02-13-2008 11:01:53

It may not have yet.. but in the right circumstances it can raise.. they make a stay to prevent that.

Single axle trailers on slopes are what can make the lift come up.. this can be disastrous if it unweights your brake axle..

be safe.

soundguy

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Michaels Dad

02-13-2008 10:38:54

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Re: What's It Called, And Where To Find One in reply to john_bud, 02-13-2008 06:52:19

Thanks.

Here's where I'm at now.

Got a regular draw bar with a 2" ball, and a clevis. Been real easy to back up to my trailer and hook up. Been using the ball and clevis for pulling. If this is wrong, what is the real purpose of a draw bar (remember I'm new to tractors) and will just pulling a trailer around with it cause harm to the tractor?

OK, now I get the new set up. What are uses and advantages to the swinging part? Never seen one in use. Most tractors I've seen just have a bar or plate coming from under the middle housing and that's where they have a ball mounted.

Gotta stay low, pretty sure the man that got killed probably was attached high like so many others have done.

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3000OH

02-13-2008 17:51:51

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Re: What's It Called, And Where To Find One in reply to Michaels Dad, 02-13-2008 10:38:54

I dunno why they sell those drawbars for 3-pts. To remove the unknowing/unwary from the rolls of the living?

Stay with Dell's suggestion and don't even consider the cheap approach of stay bars to try to keep the lift arms from rotating up if your trailer should drop a wheel in a hole. Got religion when I read about an accident where those stay bars couldn't resist the rotational push load on them and folded up, arms went up, followed by the tractor coming on over.

It's the top link on 3-pt implements that keeps the same thing from happening when pulling an implement. Compare the size/thickness of a top link with the thin pieces of steel that they call stay bars. Which would you bet your life on?

As someone else pointed out, even Dell's unit can flip a tractor under the right conditions. And, as you've deduced, the higher the hitch point, the more possibility you have of doing it.

HTH

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Bob

02-13-2008 10:54:07

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Re: What's It Called, And Where To Find One in reply to Michaels Dad, 02-13-2008 10:38:54

"OK, now I get the new set up. What are uses and advantages to the swinging part? Never seen one in use. Most tractors I've seen just have a bar or plate coming from under the middle housing and that's where they have a ball mounted."

You must limit yourself to looking at some REAL oddball tractors!

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souNdguy

02-13-2008 10:48:12

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Re: What's It Called, And Where To Find One in reply to Michaels Dad, 02-13-2008 10:38:54

Are you using your 11-hole 3pt drawbar right now?

A big advantage over the diffy mount is that it won't raise up on you or rotate like a 3pt raybar can if you don't use the correct stabilizers and stays.. etc..

soundguy

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Amatt

02-13-2008 09:34:00

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Re: What's It Called, And Where To Find One in reply to Michaels Dad, 02-13-2008 06:52:19

It sounds like what you're looking for is just the drawbar clevis and pin listed in Daves reply.

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Dell (WA)

02-13-2008 09:08:02

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Re: What's It Called, And Where To Find One in reply to Michaels Dad, 02-13-2008 06:52:19

Mikey Dad..... ....what Dave sez; ...and... you need the full "kit", eazy install. I usually mount my "bent" drawbar UP so it holds my trailer ball at kneesie height 'stedda' whacken yer ankle. $100 (cheap) considering the cost of broken diffy case by pullin' with 11-hole drawbar ..... Dell

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tractormarkb

02-14-2008 05:48:31

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Re: What's It Called, And Where To Find One in reply to Dell (WA), 02-13-2008 09:08:02

Dell's got it right! I have one of these on my 800 and it is a life saver. Very safe and easy to install. Use common sense and avoid HEAVY tounge weight on hills.Low center of gravity is the way to go!!

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36 coupe

02-13-2008 13:31:39

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Re: What's It Called, And Where To Find One in reply to Dell (WA), 02-13-2008 09:08:02

Thats the hitch I use to pull my baler, manure spreader, trailer and log hauler.Much more stable than the 3 point hitch.The 3 point is used on the plow, grader blade and hay rake.

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Brian in MA

02-13-2008 13:37:25

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Re: What's It Called, And Where To Find One in reply to 36 coupe, 02-13-2008 13:31:39

Hay rake? I put that on the hitch also.

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3 6 coupe

02-14-2008 01:55:29

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Re: What's It Called, And Where To Find One in reply to Brian in MA, 02-13-2008 13:37:25

I use a pin wheel rake.I can adjust ground contact with the hydraulic lever.Saves adjusting spring tension.There are some things that dont work well on 3 point.A cordwood trailer comes to mind,

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Dave in MS

02-13-2008 07:40:46

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Re: What's It Called, And Where To Find One in reply to Steve (Tx), 02-13-2008 06:52:19

Search parts right here on this site:

Swinging Drawbar Kit - For NAA, 600, 8N. Swinging Drawbar Kit. Painted Red. Contains Drawbar: 29.375" long, 2.00" wide, 1.00" thick, Rear Drawbar Hanger, Drawbar Clevis Assembly and Drawbar Clevis Pin. ADDITIONAL $10 SHIPPING FEE DUE TO WEIGHT. (Part No: 49A34R) $85.41 [Enlarge Picture]

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Andy Wickiser

02-13-2008 07:26:41

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Re: What's It Called, And Where To Find One in reply to Michaels Dad, 02-13-2008 06:52:19

I think what you're looking for is a swinging drawbar kit. These are widely available, try googling "swinging drawbar Ford 600". I got mine at my New Holland dealer (wasn't OEM though - was third party kit like you'll see when you google). Probably can also be found at vendors on this site.

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Wayneb

02-14-2008 13:02:04

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Swinging Drawbar in reply to Andy Wickiser, 02-13-2008 07:26:41

I go one step further. Each of my tractors has a swinging drawbar. I buy a clevis that mounts over the swinging drawbar end. I usually pull trees with two or more chains. 3 chains works best.
Wrapp chains as high as you can reach. A successful tree pull must bend over tree and loosen root system.
I take chains and double wrap small trees, sometimes 2-3 trees to a chain, then daisy chain (chains) so that no tree top will bend over and hit my tractor--or me. I use at least 3/8" link chain.
Hook up chains to trees first, daisy chained and spaced chains so that you are only pulling one tree at a time. Then I back tractor up and connect chain at drawbar. Pull multiple trees near pile for manual piling or in open area for stacking with loader tractor.
One thing about tree pulling. Do it with wet ground works best, low air pressure in rear tires and plenty of chain lenth. Getting slapped with a tree top can really peeve you off. Pulling trees = no stumps to grind.
Let the tractor do the work, not your tires. When it spins, you"re only making a mess. Course don"t make a run so fast, you"re jerked to a stop. Be safe.
Wayne

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