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pto jacked up

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a bright

02-27-2008 12:28:07

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we have a 5000 ford and recently the pto has got to where it stays on all the time... it isnt turning fast but it wont stop while it is running even when the pto isnt engaged. whats the matter

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karl f

02-27-2008 19:36:22

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Re: pto jacked up in reply to Brian in MA, 02-27-2008 12:28:07

a bright said: (quoted from post at 13:28:07 02/27/08) we have a 5000 ford and recently the pto has got to where it stays on all the time... it isnt turning fast but it wont stop while it is running even when the pto isnt engaged. whats the matter

i know a simple fix for an 8 speed, as long as nothing is shot to h@ll.

hopefully it's this simple:

on the left side, by your left foot when you are sitting in the seat, is a flat head screw headed stud with a lock nut on it. back off the lock nut and try to tighten the stud as tight as you can with a good screwdriver; or til the pto stops spinning if you are helping the screwdriver with another wrench. tighten the lock nut, and you should be good for awhile.

if things are too worn out it wont help, but sometimes that is all you need to do.

karl f

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Larry NCKS

02-27-2008 17:37:06

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I'm gonna join Rod and Rick in reply to Bob Thomas, 02-27-2008 12:28:07

soundguy said: (quoted from post at 18:42:18 02/27/08) My point was that if it is an SOS.. and it is just freewheeling.... it won't ever stop as it has no break..

soundguy

As they say it makes not the least bit of difference whether a 5000 is sweet SOS or an old gear grinder. The PTO is not part of the transmission on either of these tractors. The PTO in a 5000 SOS does, therefore, have a brake. We only hope it has no break other than a worn brake band.

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souNdguy

02-28-2008 07:37:09

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Re: I'm gonna join Rod and Rick in reply to Larry NCKS, 02-27-2008 17:37:06

As i was asking Rick.. is this limited to the 5000, or was there a specific time or model change where all the SOS picked up a brake?

Obviously I am wrong in the prev post..but would like to get up to speed on what models / time periods did / din't have the brake. Is it limited to the dash/pull pto's on the 01 series? etc.

thanks to you guys for setting me straight.

soundguy

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RodInNS

02-28-2008 10:18:14

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Re: I'm gonna join Rod and Rick in reply to souNdguy, 02-28-2008 07:37:09

This is limited to the 5000. All other S-O-S tractors so far as I'm aware had the PTO clutch within the transmission, and all of those tractors also had a straight through drive line output with the PTO output on the bottom. The 5000, and indeed all 4 cylinder transmissions from 65 forward had the driveline output on the bottom with the entire gearset being inverted in the transmission (at least the S-O-S). This allowed for a straight through PTO shaft on these transmissions. The PTO's live power was taken internally through the transmissions input shaft from a drive hub bolted to the flywheel. The same arrangement was use on S-O-S tractors as was used on gear tractors, so essentially the same rear axle and it's components were used...

Rod

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soundguy

02-28-2008 11:04:19

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Re: I'm gonna join Rod and Rick in reply to RodInNS, 02-28-2008 10:18:14

Interesting.. so then, presumably this could have been done as a cost cutting measure actually.. IE.. only 1 type of rear end to build instead of a dedicated rear for the 5000 SOS and another rear for the 5000 gear?

thanks for the info.

soundguy

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RodInNS

02-28-2008 14:03:25

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Re: I'm gonna join Rod and Rick in reply to soundguy, 02-28-2008 11:04:19

That would be my thinking. Ford did every damn thing they could to skin a nickle out of a tractor in those days. Sadly, NH prefers to take that nickle out of them in other ways today that tend to effect the customer more...
They had the right idea in those days. Commonize as much stuff as possible to cut down on design, manufacturing and stock costs. That's a concept that seems to be completly lost on NH today. They just cut the stock at the customer's expense.

Rod

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soundguy

02-28-2008 20:49:47

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Re: I'm gonna join Rod and Rick in reply to RodInNS, 02-28-2008 14:03:25

I agree. Looking at the castings of yesterdays tractors. then todays tractors.. they are scrimping on the cast iron now...

thanks for the info.. stuff I wasn't aware of and needed to be.

soundguy

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norbert kanzler

02-27-2008 13:20:51

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Re: pto jacked up in reply to a bright, 02-27-2008 12:28:07

If you want it fixed take it to your Ford tractor dealer. I hav e a 5000 SOS same thing happened to me. Ford dealer picked up tractor and fixed it. At same time I had him service the SOS

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sotxbill

02-27-2008 12:34:02

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Re: pto jacked up in reply to a bright, 02-27-2008 12:28:07

its a common problem.. usually the pto is disengaged and a brake is applied to keep it from spinning. the brake band wears a bit and the pto will continue to spin.. especially when the fluid is colder and less as it warms up..

it could also be a less common problem where either the pto clutch discs are warped from heat or the pto clutch is damaged causing it to not disenguage.. but then it will run fast all the time when the engine is fast and will not slow down unless the engine is slowed down,,,, JUST as it were turn on..

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a bright

02-27-2008 12:38:07

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Re: pto jacked up in reply to sotxbill, 02-27-2008 12:34:02

is there not a way to fix it

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soundguy

02-27-2008 12:59:14

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Re: pto jacked up in reply to a bright, 02-27-2008 12:38:07

If it's the SOS.. there is no pto break.. so you just have to live with it.. if it is the 8x2, and the brake is worn.. it is replacable.. with alot of heavy lifting.. same for the warped discs.. all fixable...

just takes sweat, parts, and money..

soundguy

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RodInNS

02-27-2008 14:05:45

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Re: pto jacked up in reply to soundguy, 02-27-2008 12:59:14

It makes no difference whether it's an S-O-S or not. The PTO on the 5000 is the same for the jerk a matic as it is for the 8x2, BOTH being located in the rear axle center section. This sounds like a brake band problem to me. Regardless, it CAN be fixed.
I'd probably start with a pressure test on the PTO control circuit, and with that verified I'd look at the band. I'd suggest lifting the lift cover off to adjust that but there is probably a way around that if you're determined...

Rod

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soundguy

02-27-2008 15:42:18

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Re: pto jacked up in reply to RodInNS, 02-27-2008 14:05:45

My point was that if it is an SOS.. and it is just freewheeling.... it won't ever stop as it has no break..

soundguy

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RickB

02-27-2008 16:11:24

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Not so. in reply to soundguy, 02-27-2008 15:42:18

Rod and I are attempting to make the point that you are incorrect. The pto clutch valving, clutch basket and brake mechanism is identical whether the tractor has an 8 speed or SOS transmission. PTO brake style changed from a pad to band for all 5000 series tractors on 6/1/1973.

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soundguy

02-28-2008 07:26:01

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Re: Not so. in reply to RickB, 02-27-2008 16:11:24

Forgot to mention.. I freely admit 99% ignorance on most SOS issues besides the most basic stuff like the traction disconnect, and what not..

thanks for answering

soundguy

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soundguy

02-28-2008 07:23:54

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Re: Not so. in reply to RickB, 02-27-2008 16:11:24

Wow.. I wasn't aware that any SOS tractors had a pto brake. What was the change date.. or was it just certain models that did come with a brake on the PTO.

I see you mentioned 73 on the 5000's as a brake change over.. etc. ( educate me here )

I figured the engagement valve and clutches were probably the same.. etc..

Was the 'no brake' issue limited to the hundred series tractors then that had the pull cable on the dash, and not the later units with the actuator lever behind the left heel??

soundguy

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RickB

02-28-2008 15:59:08

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Re: Not so. in reply to soundguy, 02-28-2008 07:23:54

Looks like Rod has you covered. Its a 3cyl vs. 4cyl thing.

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soundguy

02-28-2008 20:52:41

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Re: Not so. in reply to RickB, 02-28-2008 15:59:08

I think i got it now. Even though i don't own an SOS.. I think I may watch ebay for the sos inserts.. looks like getting them would be beneficial.. even if only for personal edification.

thanks for the patience

soundguy

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Sean in PA

02-27-2008 12:33:36

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Re: pto jacked up in reply to a bright, 02-27-2008 12:28:07

What transmission do you have? If it"s a Select-O-Speed, then you may just have to live with it as long as it provides enough power for your attachments when the handle is "engaged".

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a bright

02-27-2008 12:35:42

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Re: pto jacked up in reply to Sean in PA, 02-27-2008 12:33:36

man that aint what i wanted to hear

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RickB

02-27-2008 15:02:02

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Curable problem in reply to a bright, 02-27-2008 12:35:42

Rod is right, those here who think they know about the PTO on a SOS 5000 don't. Failed brake band or pawl depending on tractor build date. Possibly clutch discs as well, but likely not.

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awhtx

02-27-2008 17:34:29

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Attn: RickB PTO Brake Question in reply to RickB, 02-27-2008 15:02:02

RickB,
I have a 1967 5000 with SOS which should have the brake pad on the end of a pawl. Can I install the later system which uses a brake band? I understand that it provides a lot more braking surface than the original pawl.

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RickB

02-28-2008 15:55:16

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Interesting question in reply to awhtx, 02-27-2008 17:34:29

At a minimum the complete valve housing and support would have to be changed. There was no change in the clutch drum itself, so that's a good thing. Looks like the late valve has only one locating screw through the rear end housing. No idea whether the drilling is in the same location as one of the two similar holes in the early rear axle housing. Control valve linkage is different as well. Probably not worth the aggrivation.

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norsky 63

02-29-2008 15:08:28

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Re: Interesting question in reply to RickB, 02-28-2008 15:55:16

I have a 65 5000 and had the same problem. Jack up the left side of tractor so oil doesn't run out. Then remove the left foot rest and small inspection plate. Inside you can see where the pto lever pushes on a small hyd. valve. that little button should pop out all the eay when you put the lever in the disengage posistion. On mine it only came out 1/2 " I got in there with a screwdriver and twisted and bam! it popped out about another inch and problem solved. This not sos tractor. The pto now stops but not completely if i push just a lil with a board it stops. It wouldn't turn a load.

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