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861 Powermaster Ring Gear Replacement

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BZ

03-10-2008 15:58:11




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Can anyone tell me how hard will it be to change the ring gear. I have split my 8N, but not a 861 yet. I know I have to split the tractor, the 2 stage clutch is what I am thinking of. And while I have it down, is it a good idea to have the flywheel ground? IF the clutch looks questionable, I was just going to replace the pressure plate and throwout bearing also. Does the fingers come already adjusted, or should I have a good mechanic check them.
Thank You,
BZ

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BZ

03-11-2008 13:41:46




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 Re: 861 Powermaster Ring Gear Replacement in reply to BZ, 03-10-2008 15:58:11  
Thank You all for the replies. It sounds as if I cant screw things up if I just unbolt the old assembly and then unbolt the flywheel, and have a new ring gear put on, then bolt everything back up. I saw all those pictures of that gentleman, who split his tractor without taking the hood, and gas tank off. which way is easier? And do those O rings need to be replaced where the hydraulics bolt to the housing? Thanks again,
BZ

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MarkB_MI

03-11-2008 19:16:45




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 Re: 861 Powermaster Ring Gear Replacement in reply to BZ, 03-11-2008 13:41:46  
There's no reason to pull the hood or tank off. The factory service manual doesn't say to, and I didn't.

What you do need to do is to lift up on the steering wheel with a cherry picker or come-along. With the bolts that attach the steering gear pedestal to the bell housing removed, you will be able to lift everything up half an inch, which is more than enough room to roll the back half away from the front half.

If you don't have the factory service manual, I suggest you go to the New Holland web site and order one up. It describes the splitting process in great detail.

I don't remember if I replaced the O-rings on the hydraulic pump manifold, but it would be a good idea to do so.

Good luck.

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MarkB_MI

03-11-2008 04:03:46




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 Re: 861 Powermaster Ring Gear Replacement in reply to BZ, 03-10-2008 15:58:11  
awhtx has it right. No special tools required to R&R the double clutch. No need to machine the flywheel.

As for replacing the clutch, personally I would leave it alone if it's working OK and there's plenty of material left on the plates. A lot of guys have posted horror stories here about installing rebuilt or even new factory clutch assemblies and finding out they weren't adjusted right or had other problems. The thing is, if you get a bad rebuilt clutch, you probably won't know until you put the tractor back together. It's highly unlikely that the rebuilder will reimburse you for your time spent splitting the tractor a second time.

I replaced the ring gear in my 4000 (basically the same as a 961) about nine years ago. I was going to change the clutch, too, until I priced a new unit. It was over 600 bucks then, I think it might be close to a grand now. I decided that I would be money ahead to leave the old clutch in, even if it meant another split in a couple of years. So far, the old clutch has held out. Your mileage may vary.

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awhtx

03-10-2008 21:15:03




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 Re: 861 Powermaster Ring Gear Replacement in reply to BZ, 03-10-2008 15:58:11  
If you have your flywheel ground you are wasting your money. The dual clutch used on the 861 does NOT use the flywheel as a friction surface. You cannot replace the pressure plate alone. You do NOT need an alignment tool to re-install the clutch.
The dual stage clutch comes from the manufacturer or rebuilder as an assembled package of discs and pressure plates. The clutch package MUST be assembled on a special jig. The whole clutch package bolts to the flywheel. I know these things because I own an 861 and I have replaced the clutch in it.

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Ultradog MN

03-11-2008 04:55:05




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 Re: 861 Powermaster Ring Gear Replacement in reply to awhtx, 03-10-2008 21:15:03  
OOPS,
Have I gotten myself out on a limb here?
I have to admit I haven't worked on a 4 cyl clutch.
Mine was a 3000 which does use the flywheel as a friction surface and does need an alignment tool or the method I described with the blocks to install.
I assumed the dual clutches were all pretty much the same.
My bad.
Jerry



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awhtx

03-11-2008 06:48:29




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 Re: 861 Powermaster Ring Gear Replacement in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-11-2008 04:55:05  
Ultradog MN: There's an old saying that when you're out on a limb you need to quit sawing behind you! Yes, the dual clutch used in the X6X tractors is a completely self contained package. To R&R the clutch you merely unbolt the complete unit from the flywheel and attach a new/rebuilt unit. There is nothing the owner can do inside the clutch without a set of specialized tools.



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Ultradog MN

03-10-2008 16:52:50




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 Re: 861 Powermaster Ring Gear Replacement in reply to BZ, 03-10-2008 15:58:11  
An 861 really isn't much different than an 8N when it comes to splitting it and replacing the ring gear.
As for the double clutch, well it's one of those darned if you do darned if you don't deals.
You are already there just to get the ring gear off. Then again those double clutches are pricey.
How was it working and how much money do you have?
If you are going to do it and don't have the double spline clutch alignment tool I would pull the steering box and block your fingers down with small angle iron blocks. Makes it easier to reassemble those doubles.
Jim UT just put up a whole bunch of great photos of his 850 clutch job. It's the same job as yours except his was a single disc.
Look for his post about 5 down from this one.

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richardp3

03-10-2008 19:58:04




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 Re: 861 Powermaster Ring Gear Replacement in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-10-2008 16:52:50  
Ultradog: I have my 64 4000 split and the engine on a stand. I haven't taken my clutch apart yet, but I want to since I have it apart. Can you elaborate on the small angle iron blocking through the steering column hole technique?



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MarkB_MI

03-11-2008 04:06:41




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 Re: 861 Powermaster Ring Gear Replacement in reply to richardp3, 03-10-2008 19:58:04  
Richard,

If your double clutch is working, I suggest you leave it alone. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!



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Ultradog MN

03-10-2008 20:31:58




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 Re: 861 Powermaster Ring Gear Replacement in reply to richardp3, 03-10-2008 19:58:04  
Well I kind of came upon it by accident really.
Bought an 8 sp tranny, flywheel and double clutch and rear end to upgrade my tractor to live PTO.
Guy I bought from was an ag/heavy equip. teacher at a votech.
Got it all home and was looking closely at the double pressure plate and saw someone had taken pieces of 3/4" angle iron about 1" long and had blocked the back side (ie short end) of the 3 fingers to keep them from returning to normal.
Was concerned about it and called the guy back.
He kind of laughed and said he'd been teaching that method to his students for years.
Basically what it does is keep your fingers blocked down and the pressure off the discs so you can align them easier if you don't have the double spline alignment tool.
I had the tires off the tractor and with the pto lever engaged and the tranny in gear I was able to turn the pto shaft and or the brake drum to help mate up the splines into the discs.
When I got the 2 halves of the tractor bolted back together he said to push the clutch pedal all the way down and the little blocks will fall out into the bottom of the bell housing. With the steering box off I fished them out of the bottom easy.

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