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641 4 speed problem???

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604

04-28-2008 07:25:19

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Should there be play for and aft on the gear shaft? I am rebuilding a 641, that shifted just fine. But when I took the cover off and got to dinking around with it I found I could pull the gears toward the front and rear about 1/4 in. Bot seem tight side to side. Never been in a tranny before, so not sure if this is normal. Like I said it shifted fine, and all gears worked with no noise. But I dont want to put it all back together only to find there is a problem. Thanks!

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Dave in MS

04-29-2008 09:13:26

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Re: 641 4 speed problem??? in reply to 604, 04-28-2008 07:25:19

This is what can happen when bearings wear due to rust from water in the oil. third party image

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awhtx

04-28-2008 11:23:38

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Re: 641 4 speed problem??? in reply to 604, 04-28-2008 07:25:19

1/4" sounds like way too much to me- it should be more like .015". I believe it's john_bud who can post photos of what happens when there's too much end play- transmission destroyed.

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john_bud

04-28-2008 12:39:22

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Re: 641 4 speed problem??? in reply to awhtx, 04-28-2008 11:23:38

Ouch! Thanks for reminding me!

Actually, the main shaft was bent (slightly - about 0.04") and to get "correct" rotation resistance, I shimmed it too much and POW! started snapping off teeth. By the way, that too much shimming was in the 0.015" range. Correctly set up it has no play that you can feel and a certain amount of resistance to rotation.

There are some gears in the transmission that move forward and backward to engage different ratios. Is that what 604 was talking about?

Or do you mean the main gear cluster as a whole, moves fore and aft 1/4"?

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604

04-28-2008 16:26:00

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Re: 641 4 speed problem??? in reply to john_bud, 04-28-2008 12:39:22

Here is a pic. It really is more like an 1/8th of an in. movement. It looked to be the hole thing that moves. It shifted and worked great. But I want it right before I hang the new engine on. I just have never gone inside of a tranny before. Thanks!

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john_bud

04-28-2008 19:17:30

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Re: 641 4 speed problem??? in reply to 604, 04-28-2008 16:26:00

Well you got water in the oil from the look of it! Dump, clean, flush and fill with new 80w90.

I think that gear can move on the main shaft and not be a problem. Look at the shaft itself and see if it is moving or just that gear.

Is there any up and down motion when you grab it and pull up?

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604

04-29-2008 03:48:15

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Re: 641 4 speed problem??? in reply to john_bud, 04-28-2008 19:17:30

Yep, Oil has been drained, and am in the process of spraying it out with some good old Jet-A. Tried to pull up and down on it and got no movement. I found Legend tractor parts has a hole kit for rebuilding these 4 speeds for like $100. Looks like all bearings, and seals. Thinking about just getting the kit and replacing everything. That is assuming Ii can get it apart and back together! LOL. Thanks!

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awhtx

04-29-2008 05:01:04

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Re: 641 4 speed problem??? in reply to 604, 04-29-2008 03:48:15

When I got my 861D a few years ago it was jumping out of 3rd gear. I had rebuilt many engines in my past but I had never been inside a transmission and the thought of going in was daunting. I went ahead and jumped in with both feet and along with assistance from both the Ford manual and the I&T manual I managed to get it back together. It wasn't nearly as bad as I had thought. You set the bearing preload on the gear shafts by so many pounds of torque required to turn the shaft. I got a small hand held fish weighing scale at W*M and wrapped a piece of cord around the shaft, hooked it on the scale and pulled. You add or remove shims until you get the correct preload torque.

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awhtx

04-29-2008 05:00:54

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Re: 641 4 speed problem??? in reply to 604, 04-29-2008 03:48:15

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604

04-29-2008 05:25:00

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Re: 641 4 speed problem??? in reply to awhtx, 04-29-2008 05:00:54

Thanks! Good to hear. I was looking at the ford manual and figured it was doable. I have worked on allot worse. Just never a tractor tranny. Kinda like new things!

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john_bud

04-30-2008 06:56:20

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Re: 641 4 speed problem??? in reply to 604, 04-29-2008 05:25:00

If you have a press it's not too bad of a job. The gears are pressed on and off and they can get a bit tight if that water caused any rust.

I would take out the drain and pressure wash the case. When the oil looks murky the bottom is usually mucky, especially if you are taking the gears out. (can do it easily with the gears out)

However, there may be no need to pull it apart. The kit is pretty much just the bearings and seals. You probably just need seals and that's a lot cheaper than the kit!

You should also get new balls and springs for the shift detents. From FNH and pretty cheap.

If you do pull it apart, take lots and lots of pictures showing each gear and it's orientation.

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