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Fordson Tractors Discussion Forum

Hard Starting PowerMajor

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Miles

12-15-2004 09:46:00




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I have a PM that requires 20-30 seconds of cranking and the excess fuel button engaged to start....Lots of white smoke...May fire a couple of times and then I have to run around and push the fuel button again before I retry. Once started engine there is a little bit of white smoke when idling which I think is dirty injectors. Other majors I have seen start almost instantly and most users don't even know about the excess fuel button.

Whats wrong?

Engine runs smoothly and has good power. I think this relates to the amount of fuel going thru the pump. There is a threaded shaft w/ locknut coming out the rear on the housing that the fuel shut-off is attached to. Can I increase the amount of fuel by adjusting this? or am I looking in the wrong area?

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Jim K

12-15-2004 10:10:19




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 Re: Hard Starting PowerMajor in reply to Miles, 12-15-2004 09:46:00  
Miles I have the same tractor with the same problem but I use brake cleaner to get it started because it is less volatile than either.
While your problem may be the injector pump, you say that it smokes while running, I would sugest that you take a compression reading on all cylinders, I'm willing to bet that it is time for a rebuild. which I plan to do to mine as soon as I'm able to free up some time.

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Miles

12-15-2004 10:36:54




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 Re: Hard Starting PowerMajor in reply to Jim K, 12-15-2004 10:10:19  
Engine just rebuilt last year... mind you I am a "learn as you go" mechanic. I don't use any starting aids other than excess fuel button.



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Jim K

12-15-2004 15:31:58




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 Re: Hard Starting PowerMajor in reply to Miles, 12-15-2004 10:36:54  
Sorry please disregard my last post
Could it possibly be injector pump timing
White smoke is usually a sign of air getting into the system be sure and check all lines to the pump.



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Miles

12-15-2004 16:34:02




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 Re: Hard Starting PowerMajor in reply to Jim K, 12-15-2004 15:31:58  
What does the threaded shaft on the back of the pump adjust?



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Majorman

12-16-2004 06:46:15




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 Re: Hard Starting PowerMajor in reply to Miles, 12-15-2004 16:34:02  
Sounds like you have the timing set wrong. These tractors usually start before you press the starter. You should be set exactly on 23 degrees before top dead centre.

Do not adjust the threaded rod at the rear of the pump. This is set when the pump is set up on the test equipment and should not be touched. It is the maximum fuel stop and incorrect adjustment can damage the engine.

White smoke can be timing or unburnt fuel due to low compression, are the valve adjustments correct? 15 thou. inlet and 12 thou. exhaust (the ones with rotator caps).

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Miles

12-16-2004 08:40:25




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 Re: Hard Starting PowerMajor in reply to Majorman, 12-16-2004 06:46:15  
Timing has been checked and re-checked
Valves have been checked and re-checked
Compression should be good, new piston/rings etc last year.

I asked about the max fuel adjustment because I think a lot of people out ther use the adjustment incorrectly for idle speed. Recently I went to look at an early disel and the seller apologised for the high idle and said it would not start if he set it lower. I asked how he was changing and he was making this adjustment. I showed him the correct way on the intake stop.
Anyway this tractor was in terrible shape, leaks from every orifice, noisy like a freight train but it started from cold in less than a crank.

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Majorman

12-16-2004 23:42:16




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 Re: Hard Starting PowerMajor in reply to Miles, 12-16-2004 08:40:25  
Have you worked it really hard since it was rebuilt? If it has been on light work it might not have bedded in. A days really hard work could work wonders, a weeks hard work would be even better.

What oil are you using? A straight 20/30W or 10/40W depending on the temperature. Do not use a modern oil that can be used in engine and rear axle like Castrol Multipurpose, a better one would be Castrol Multiuse or just plain Castrol HD. The modern oils contain lubricants for the inboard disc brakes and this can plate the bores causing similar problems.

As Mark asks, what sort of rebuild did you do? Rings or liners and rings or pistons, liners and rings.

Did you have the front cover off and the timing gears? It could be possible that they were reassembled 1 tooth out on a gear, it is easily done.

Have you had the injectors and pump serviced by a diesel shop?

Sorry for so many questions but we cannot see the tractor. She should start very easily as you have seen with a worn out one.

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Mark 1

12-16-2004 18:31:59




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 Re: Hard Starting PowerMajor in reply to Miles, 12-16-2004 08:40:25  
Did the tractor smoke after the rebuild, or is this something new?Did it smoke a little after the rebuild then get worse?On the rebuild did you use new sleeves and pistons/rings?



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Miles

12-17-2004 06:09:59




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 Re: Hard Starting PowerMajor in reply to Mark 1, 12-16-2004 18:31:59  
Rebuild included new pistons & rings but not sleeves (no wear marks, ridge). Purchased tractor last year with water in oil problem..Previous owner rebuilt completely but failed to seal sleeves properly. Timing cover has not been removed by me..

I use 10W30 engine oil and tractor doesn"t do any heavy work. The tractor only smokes white at idle and at full throttle no load. Tractor was purchased with water drained so only started to drive onto trailer.

Injector pump has been rebuilt at some point in it life-time because it has the telltale hole drilled in the side cover.

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Majorman

12-17-2004 10:33:15




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 Re: Hard Starting PowerMajor in reply to Miles, 12-17-2004 06:09:59  
Sounds like she needs some work. If it has not done any really hard work the bores/rings have not bedded in. Also the sleeves may be glazed.

There used to be an additive that went in the fuel to help break bore glazing but I don"t remember much about it.

It would be well worth trying to find some really hard work for her. It could be worth getting your local service man to put her on a dynamometer for a day if you have nothing for her to do.

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Miles

12-17-2004 13:31:19




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 Re: Hard Starting PowerMajor in reply to Majorman, 12-17-2004 10:33:15  
I will stop at NAPA on the way home today and see if they have any magic deglazing chemicals...
and then think of a way to abuse the "old girl" and give the engine a work out.

I want to revisit the question about the "max fuel adjustment". If this was adjusted improperly, would this impact starting? It clearly did where it was used to adjust idle speed.

How would you check adjustment?



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sandymac

12-17-2004 14:59:27




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 Re: Hard Starting PowerMajor in reply to Miles, 12-17-2004 13:31:19  
fuel pump, i know i say this for any problems it seems, but one of my super majors would NOT start if cold unless a whif of ether was used, .I used this super Majors pump on my newly rebuilt power major, and it was excactly the same, no go if cold..tried a known good pump on both tractors and they both started instantly.. having a Good known functioning spare fuel pump is a godsend at times. Rules out stacks of other possible problems in one go.
Sandy

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Mark 1

12-17-2004 18:30:49




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 Re: Hard Starting PowerMajor in reply to sandymac, 12-17-2004 14:59:27  
I think the term is seating of the rings in the USA.I have no problem pulling the head off and looking into the bores to see if they are clean and shiny, but it might be something you don't feel comfortable with.You might leave this for a mech.An additive probably will not fix this.A proper honing of the bores(or new sleeves, ouch) and another set of rings might be the only cure.Best to let it smoke, is my advice, if this is the case.

There is also the valve guides and seals question on the head?More than likely it is the rings than this area but you never know???

Also a word of caution when tinkering with the injection pump, if you do something wrong it could cost you the whole motor.Check the lift pump by cracking the bleed bolt on top of the fuel filter, if it is the original style, and see if fuel flows while cranking the motor.You can use the compression relief lever on front of the valve cover if you have one while turning the motor over.My lift pump has a "priming lever" on it and I use this instead of turning over the motor with the starter.

Also maybe Majorman and Sandymac can advise you on checking the cam timing.It is something I have not yet done to my small fleet.The injection pump timing would not be correct if the cam timing is off even if you set it to 23 degrees.

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Miles

12-18-2004 08:27:04




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 Re: Hard Starting PowerMajor in reply to Mark 1, 12-17-2004 18:30:49  
Removing the head is not a problem but I think you are right about engine needing hard work.

A couple other ideas came to mind about the hard starting...

1. When I had the engine apart to change pistons/rings I replaced the head gasket with a composite type whereas the original was copper. Would this make enough difference in compression?
Also what are your views about reusing head gaskets? NH said the copper type gasket was no longer available.

2. What about leak back thru the lift pump? There is no visible signs of leakage but maybe internal? I purchased a new pump for another tractor and will try that.

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Majorman

12-19-2004 00:45:48




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 Re: Hard Starting PowerMajor in reply to Miles, 12-18-2004 08:27:04  
Leave well alone. It is certainly not the type of head gasket or the fuel lift pump as you do not have to bleed it to get it to start.

Do not re use head gaskets as this will lead to other problems like oil in the water or visa-versa.

Lack of hard work or a serviced injection pump at a reputable service agent are the most likely answer to your problem. I would try the easy one first, a run on a dynamometer could sort things out if you have no hard work.

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sandymac

12-18-2004 15:28:58




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 Re: Hard Starting PowerMajor in reply to Miles, 12-18-2004 08:27:04  
1) no,
2) almost certainly no.
does it start ok when warm?
still reckon fuel pump is a major contender (no pun intended).
Sandy



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Blue

01-22-2005 21:53:42




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 Re: Hard Starting PowerMajor in reply to sandymac, 12-18-2004 15:28:58  
My Power Major has a similar problem will only start with fuel button in hot or cold. Start straight up no probs with button in . Engine A1 condition . No smoke Just a bit of black smoke under load. Fuel system appears OK. No work done on it through.



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