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Fordson Tractors Discussion Forum

FSM Mystery miss.

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Richard Hare

05-03-2008 19:12:39




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Afraid it's me again.

Put serviced injectors back in the super major, set tappets, changed fuel filter, washed out sediment bowl on pump, bled system turned her over to make sure juice was at each injector, tightened injector lines, and fired her up.

Still misssing terribly!

cut in once or twice, but only for a moment.
Lots of smoke.

Cracked injector lines and one cylinder is "off"
still.
Thought it must be a valve or cracked piston.
Took head off.
Took out the valves on 'missing' cylinder.
Valves a bit spotted on the seats, but I've seen worse.
the head could do with a de-coke, but again, I've seen worse, and not gummed up with oil, in fact a good warm up would get rid of a lot of it.

Pistons all appear about the same, none with more slop than any others. Would cracked skirt make it miss?

I need some advice here chaps.
Planned on using it this spring!....and spring's springing Fast!

When I cracked open the injector lines with it running, the squirt of diesel appeared about the same from each line.

Could rings be so far gone that it doesn't fire?
If so, you'd think more oil would be "upstairs" than there is.
Could it be the pump?

If it is, I'm a bit ticked for pulling the head.
(There again, valves could do with grinding in,...)

What do I check first, fellows?
What did I miss??

Thanks in advance!!

Richard.

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Mike Farmer

05-08-2008 14:35:08




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 Re: FSM Mystery miss. in reply to Richard Hare, 05-03-2008 19:12:39  
Hi I,ve not forgotten about pump info but I having PC prob so could be next week MTF



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Mike Farmer

05-05-2008 12:40:06




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 Re: FSM Mystery miss. in reply to Richard Hare, 05-03-2008 19:12:39  
Hi again. If you come back to me on my email address I'll try to send you all the relevant info that I have on the various pumps and settings MTF



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Richard Hare

05-05-2008 21:24:09




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 Re: FSM Mystery miss. in reply to Mike Farmer, 05-05-2008 12:40:06  
Mike, I don't seem to have your e-mail, but i've left mine here for you.

Thanks for the offer on pump info!

R.



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Mike Farmer

05-05-2008 12:11:29




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 Re: FSM Mystery miss. in reply to Richard Hare, 05-03-2008 19:12:39  
Hi dont be even one tiny bit embarrassed about overuse of this forum cos other people with the same or similar problems are following this of that you can be sure. If you have an injector pump with a removable side plate try this:- take the plate off and run the engine check that all the lifters are working constantly I've had one stick on and off and it will produce the sort of probs you are referring to. No prob when turning with starter but problem cuts in when lifters are working more rapidly and one of them sticks open(up). MTF

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Richard Hare

05-05-2008 21:16:36




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 Re: FSM Mystery miss. in reply to Mike Farmer, 05-05-2008 12:11:29  
Mike, Thanks for the idea with the pump.
It does have the plate on the side so I can check this when I have all the guts back in the engine!
I pulled a piston out this morning, and it too looks OK. the rod bearings don't look worn at all really, but have picked up some grit in the babbit, so I'll put main and rod bearings in while I'm here, and seals. The liners seem to have about 5 thou. of wear,( .0005) compared to the tops after carbon is removed, Don't think it needs liners yet, but will re-ring it while it's in bits.
Got valves ground in today, very little to do, but 3 were slightly bent, but the grind put them right.
Think it's been apart before, 'cos it's got two # 4 connecting rods!....with #1 caps!

I'm thinking you might be right about the pump, Mike.
In a way, I maybe pulled it apart for nothing, but I'm glad I did. It's a good engine, and am pleased I didn't put it to work with the 'foreign bodies' in the bearings, and the dirty valve seats.

Got to find the closest, cheapest, and fastest parts now. (Probably here will be the cheapest!)

Thanks again,

Richard.

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dwol

05-05-2008 09:44:08




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 Re: FSM Mystery miss. in reply to Richard Hare, 05-03-2008 19:12:39  
You might check your air flow, both exhaust and intake. You can run with both disconnected for a short time to trouble shoot. If either is pluged you will know about it right off.
Regards,
Dave



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Richard Hare

05-05-2008 21:26:27




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 Re: FSM Mystery miss. in reply to dwol, 05-05-2008 09:44:08  
Dwol,
Yes, I read in past posts how air cleaner can get plugged and need a thorough clean.
Will check it out.

Thanks!

R.



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Mike Farmer

05-05-2008 00:43:08




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 Re: FSM Mystery miss. in reply to Richard Hare, 05-03-2008 19:12:39  
Hi Richard I've got my real deep thinking head on at this moment. Do your exhaust valves have rotator caps? If so are the clearances correct inside the caps? I can't advise on this particular aspect you will definitely need a manual to check it and sort it out. I left some info on about manuals on your previous threads and about rad cowls. Further to that a good copy of the original 'drivers manual'is available from the following. www.cawood-tractor-manuals.co.uk they will also supply the I&T Manual.good luck MTF

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Richard Hare

05-05-2008 05:42:43




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 Re: FSM Mystery miss. in reply to Mike Farmer, 05-05-2008 00:43:08  
Mike,

First off, thank you for the information supplied in the other threads.
I would have replied, but feel a bit embarrased by the amount of posts I'm wracking up!

It has no rotor caps on the exhaust valves, so that's one problemit hasn't!

Re. the rad. cowl, think a pal has one for me, when he has time for me to go and see it. It sounds scary to buy a new one these days!

Thanks for the info. re. the driver's manual. It sounds like a "must have"....as well as the I&T.

Thank you again for the ideas, I'll let you know how it goes.

R.

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Richard Hare

05-03-2008 22:37:58




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 Re: FSM Mystery miss. in reply to Richard Hare, 05-03-2008 19:12:39  
In the above post, I should have mentioned that when I got the tractor, it missed and back-fired on idle, but seemed to run on all four when opened up a bit.
I checked pump timing, and it was out a little way. when I put it "right" it didn't back-fire any more, but had a more pronounced miss.

Still, if it was timing, how could 3 fire and one not?
Compression on back two cylinders appeared less than on #1 and #2.

I am very interested to hear any ideas!

Richard.

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tiresntracks

05-04-2008 23:25:21




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 Re: FSM Mystery miss. in reply to Richard Hare, 05-03-2008 22:37:58  
Richard,
I was hoping that it would run right when you put it back together. The smoke and the miss makes me think that its got low compression on at least one cylinder. Since it had bent pushrods, it could have some bent valves. Sometimes they're bent such a small amount that you can't see it unless you chuck them up in a lathe or a valve grinder, but they will still leak compression. Maybe something is holding one of the valves open, like carbon or a loose seat. If you adjusted it with it open, now it can't close even if the carbon is gone. Its kind of hard to tell what's wrong without seeing it. Could it need rings and liners? Hope you get it running. Spring was almost here today.

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Richard Hare

05-05-2008 05:56:30




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 Re: FSM Mystery miss. in reply to tiresntracks, 05-04-2008 23:25:21  
Hi again,T'N'T,

Thanks again for your thoughts on this, they are very valuable to me!

I too am thinking low compression/ shot rings or some such.
It's a good idea you have, to chuck valves in lathe to see if they're bent. I'll try them and see.I don't think it was a carbon on valve problem, or a loose valve seat, I scraped around the seats on the 'dead' cylinder, and they seem ok.
Will grind the valves in and this morning before the day gets too old I'll pull out the piston and see what I have,
It might just need rings, or maybe the whole shooting match. Depending on what I find, I might have to pull them all out , and it's a good time to check bearings as well....

Still, it's worth doing right, but a bit inconvenient to do it Now!
I'll get back to you on what I find.

Thanks again,

R.

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