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Major spues black smoke. The start of resurection

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Mark

08-16-2000 20:15:05




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Here is the story. First I,m no diesel mechanic. And from what i am reading on this site many of you are knowledgeable about these fordsons so this may intrest you and help me a great deal. I,m a machinist and hopefully I will be able to follow youre instuctions and get this old beauty to run again.... Aquired 1956 major engine#1398184. Started up fine, sounded ok but spueed black smoke unbelievable and I mean alot You couldn,t breath around it.It rained diesel.With my limited knowledge and before I found this site. I started to mess with it from data I found in some partial old manual. First I started to adjust the amount of fuel from each injector by moving each adjustment. I did this while it was running by sound and site. It definatly helped. you could see the tractor.By the way the cover and pump had been messed with before I got tractor so I was asumming previous owner couldn,t fix. Next I adjusted control shaft on pump, again by site and sound ,now you could actually sit on tractor when it ran but still smoked. Smoked more at idle. but still alot. After doing this sequence a few times it got a little better. Again no problem starting and didn,t sound to bad. A little backfiring when backing off throttle. Then set timing according to book. Had most of the pages in manual .Didn,t seem to have too much of an effect. Advanced timing a few degress seemed to help .Could drive tractor and breath at the same time now. Could work with backhoe but still not right. Still too much smoke but 50 percent better than it was. Seemed that tractor was lacking power,unless I incresed fuel delevery from main control shaft on pump. But then it would smoke more. Then I checked injectors by removing one at a time and watching them fire. atomization seemed ok (from a distance) and injector tips looked ok. reinstalled. After all this it still was not right but it was useable and it wasn,t raining diesel fuel upon you when driving tractor. Next Used tractor over the next couple of weeks. Drove 16 miles to property we bought to dig percs. Spent the day digging and drove it home again. Tractor set for about a week. Started tractor again and let idle while I was getting stuff ready in the garage. Tractor ran for about 20 minutes then came to a screeching stop.Wouldn,t turn over untill cooled, but then would not start again. Well by now you know what happened but at that time I wasn,t sure what happened but I kmew it wasn,t good. So I tore down tractor.. Water in oil pan,quite a bit, Two rods spun Crank bearings wipped out and crank .030 under.. Even worse Block broken away just beneath oring groove for sleeve seal on three cylinders, for an area of about 2inches circumfentially.This had been this way7 for a long time. I think over the years it was patched up with some kind of putty as I found some in the pan. So to fix the problem Here is were I stand now.. I made aluminum molds of the oring groove from the good cylinder . Put them in the three that had broken cast pieces gone held in place with jack bolt and silver soldered(braced) up against the aluminum to reform the oring groove.. ( I had the block baked and proffesinally cleaned to help in this repair process) This worked suprisingly well. The sleeves slip in nice and soon will be ready to start rebuilding. I am waiting on new crankshaft. And I can,t find sleeve seal or oring which ever they are yet. But after I get her running again I still have the smoke issue. I now alot of stuff I did was probally not right so your help would be greatly appreciated. Here is just a few of the things I am assuming... I don,t think the governor works. Its vacume with two pipes from intake. The injector pum[p is a simms.. I could use a ring gear if anybody knows where to get one and a throw out bearing... I will need some guidance I,m sure when I start to reinstall motor and get running . I will post for help... Thanking you in advance ... Mark

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Brian

08-17-2000 05:49:36




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 Re: Major spues black smoke. The start of resurection in reply to Mark, 08-16-2000 20:15:05  
Mark,
Sounds like you have had some problems. First you will have great difficulty in setting up your injection pump the way you are doing. The fuel from each delivery port on the pump has to be precisly measured to great accuracy to get the engine to run correctly. It would be best to get it looked at by a diesel workshop.

Secondly the use of alluminium in the area of the ring groves could cause the same problem again in a very short while. One of the main causes of the collapse of the ring grove is electrolosis. This will be greatly increased by the use of alluminium and steel in close proximity. The two metals fight and oxidise in air. This may be greatly increased in the water/antifreeze solution.

The best method of repair I have found over the years is a material called "mollecular metal" made by a company called "Belzona". Similar material is made by other companies. This works in the same way as body filler but is far stronger, it can be drilled and tapped without a problem. We used it for years in this area on the engine as the water conditions where I live cause major problems with wet liners. (even in the latest JD's which are supposed to be perfect):).

Fordson spares can be got from your Case/New Holland dealer. Where are you?
regards
Brian

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Brian,

08-17-2000 13:58:44




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 Re: Re: Major spues black smoke. The start of resurection in reply to Brian, 08-17-2000 05:49:36  
The aluminum I spoke of was just a mold to form the shape of the o-ring groove Actually the groove in the majors block is more of a v shape than a typical oring groove , however I duplicated the original groove. This mold was removed after the brazing process was conpleted. The filler is actually silver/bronze alloy so I hope it will last. The oring grooves look good otherwise there appears to be no pitting, etching etc. I dont no what caused this block to break away as it did , but it appears to be a mechanical force. Either it frooze or possibly it was broke when the sleeves were removed or installed.Any way the brazing process is completed already. I am falmiliar with belzona and could have used it ,but didn,t because it appeared that something along the lines of this had already been tried and broke off and layed in the pan, but who knows what was used .I have yet to find the oring in the states. If I knew the size of the oring I could easilly obtain them but I can,t find any mention of the size. I will keep trying. There is a diesel shop not to far from my home I will take your suggestion and bring it to them... I am from the United States, Bangor, Pennsylvania Thanks Mark

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Brian

08-20-2000 02:38:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Major spues black smoke. The start of resurection in reply to Brian,, 08-17-2000 13:58:44  
Mark,
Thats great news! I thought of all the work you had done to have it wasted. The corrosion of the block in that area is common. The best way to cure it is to use either one of the modern cooling fluids or to keep a 50/50 antifreeze solution. It is common on all wet lined engines. Your Case/New Holland dealer is your best bet with the "O" rings but take the engine No. with you. You have not said whether you have "O" rings at the top of the liner as well.
When refitting your liners, assemble them first without the seals and measure the liner protrusion above the block. Should be about .002 thou. to get the proper "nip" on the head gasket. Might be best to try this before you find the rings then you can get shims as well.
regards
Brian
PS The grooves are "V" shaped.

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Mark

08-20-2000 17:44:52




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Major spues black smoke. The start of resurection in reply to Brian, 08-20-2000 02:38:19  
Brian, Thanks found most everything I need except exhaust manifold in the states from New Holland dealer. My exhaust manifold is repairble but will need alot of work. If I can,t find one I,ll have to fix... My liners/block do not have o-rings at the top. What do you use to seal? Silicon, Teflon paste,etc.. If it,s worth the time I could machine o-ring grooves in the outside diameter of the flange of the liner although it would have to be a small oring as the flange is not overly large and I would not want to subject it,s integrity It is possibly and would seal, but I,m not sure if it,s necessary. If a sealant works I would much rather go that route. What do you think? Also there were no shimms at all installed under any of the liners, but I will check this before installation... Thanks again Mark

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Brian

08-21-2000 10:15:17




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Major spues black smoke. The start of resurection in reply to Mark, 08-20-2000 17:44:52  
Mark,
Normally all you require is a little soft soap and push in with your hand with a slight turning motion to ensure that the ring is not pushed out of the groove or cut. With my Nuffield 4/65 with the similar problem, I used "Red Hermatite" around the liner and then fitted it quickly and allowed to set in position. This works well.
Remember to check and shim otherwise you could find yourself fitting head gaskets at regular intervals. Up to .004 thou. is allowable.
regards
Brian

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Mark

08-23-2000 16:40:23




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Major spues black smoke. The start of resurection in reply to Brian, 08-21-2000 10:15:17  
Brian, What is red hermatite?



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robert

09-15-2002 05:55:49




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Major spues black smoke. The start of resurection in reply to Mark, 08-23-2000 16:40:23  
we have a 57 fordson major that was running great and it broke the timing gear . after getting that fixed and double cheching the timing it is smoking black smoke . need help with adjusting timing . i already had the injectors rebuilt . that did not solve my problem . it starts easy and runs but has alot of black smoke



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robert

09-15-2002 05:55:07




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Major spues black smoke. The start of resurection in reply to Mark, 08-23-2000 16:40:23  
we have a 57 fordson major that was running great and it broke the timing gear . after getting that fixed and double cheching the timing it is smoking black smoke . need help with adjusting timing . i already had the injectors rebuilt . that did not solve my problem . it starts easy and runs but has alot of black smoke



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Brian

08-24-2000 11:21:39




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Major spues black smoke. The start of resurection in reply to Mark, 08-23-2000 16:40:23  
Mark,
Its a type of gasket sealer that does not go hard and brittle. It remains "Plastic" throughout its life and fills out the little iregularities. I have used instant gasket as well.
regards
Brian



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Mark

08-27-2000 17:55:48




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Major spues black smoke. The start of resurection in reply to Brian, 08-24-2000 11:21:39  
Brian,, Do you know what size or # etc.. the injectors are supposed to be in a 56 major engine #1398481... I have two injectors that say simms F&P 25 .. one that say F&P 31 And one that says nothing Any thoughts? Regards, Mark ..



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DeDe

04-08-2002 10:23:12




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Major spues black smoke. The start of resurection in reply to Mark, 08-27-2000 17:55:48  
what is this about.



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Brian

08-29-2000 10:56:45




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Major spues black smoke. The start of resurection in reply to Mark, 08-27-2000 17:55:48  
Mark,
There is a fair amount of interchange ability within the injectors on these tractors.
According to your number you have a Mk1 engine. The injectors for this engine should have a green or yellow paint mark and have a nozzle number NL123 stamped on the large shank of the nozzle.
Always fit a set of similar injectors.
Regards
Brian.



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Steven B

08-16-2000 21:39:02




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 Re: Major spues black smoke. The start of resurection in reply to Mark, 08-16-2000 20:15:05  
I get my O rings from my New Holland dealer. I live in Australia and Fordsons are still common, New Holland here stocks all parts for them, but I am not sure about in the States.

The black smoke is probably caused by one of two things:
1 The timing is retarded by a huge amount. There is a post down further where I gave a guy instructions on seting the timing.

2 The rubber diaphram in the govoner is torn. This will prevent the fuel control rod from being "sucked" back to its optimum position. Remove the govenor housing at the front of the injector pump. The diaphram is held in the housing by a large wire clip. If its holed, replace it. They are available from New Holland.

Steven B

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