Ongoing saga, FSM hydraulics

The oil that came out was very 'creamy' looking.

One thing... I don't really know where to fill it. Is it the hole behind the seat? I have a pipe in that one, attached to a hydraulic control. I think it was added on by a previous owner.

Oh, and the splines on the lift arms are not 'master' type. the arms will go on any way at all, and it looks like someone just moved one to make it a handy position to retain one of the add-on hydraulic hoses.

Oh, and I have uploaded a picture of it to the gallery and to the tractor info page.

Regards, Larry.

Yes the hole behind the seat is the correct place.
Yes the arms do have a master spline. It looks like the ends of the splines are joined not a wide groove. Quite hard to see. This is why someone has missed it.

Don't put too much oil back in. You might find that it is easier to get to the pump if you have to have the top off. About 25l should enable you to test after cleaning the filter.

regards

Brian

About those splines.... Are both sides of the master spline type? The reason I ask is this:

The bolts holding both arms were just finger tight. I pulled them off, and tried to remove the right side arm. It was pretty much stuck. I would have taken the rubber/plastic mallet to it, but noticed that the left side one was free. I took it off by hand, with only 'wiggling' required to remove it. Looking at it, I didn't see a key flat or groove, so I lined it up with the right side one and slipped it back on. It went on quite easily. Could it be that once it is forced on wrong, it destroys the key?

If you'd like to see a picture of her, with my father-in-law driving, check the link below.

Thanks, Larry

• Fordson Super Major

It's a little hard to describe the master spline. Its not a keyway its more a wider groove. You have done the best thing by lineing up both sides.

She does not look too bad in the picture, just a bit of cosmetics.

regards

Brian.

I put 25 litres of oil into it, and fired it up. The bad news is that it still didn't work, but the good news is that I got a good chance to play around and eliminated some possibilities, and perhaps even found the problem.

Good news: The hydraulic pump is working. The add-on hydraulic lines pressurize when I move their control lever. I found, by trial and error, that the main control lever has to be full up in order for the add-on stuff to work. The engine does 'work' when the lines pressurize.

Good news (I think): The lift arms are free. I tried lifting them by hand, and they sort of came unstuck and allowed me to move them up and down. The bad news part of this was that they seem to sort of grab as I raise or lower them, with accompanying noises, mainly 'clank' sounds. I did discover the reason for this later.

I pulled all the bolts on the top cover, and discovered that it's far too heavy to lift manually, especially with the fenders and wheels still in place. I will be renting or borrowing an engine hoist tomorrow to lift it off.

I did manage to get it lifted a little way, and discovered what may be the problem. I can see a rod that is obviously the push rod that raises the arms, and it seems like it pushes against a metal piece that is limited in its travel by contact with part of the main casting. If I have this concept right, the problem is that the metal piece that the rod pushes is not attached to the lift arm shaft. Turns out it was the source of the clanking sound I heard, as it's a snug fit on the shaft, and raising the arms caused it to clank against the stop, and lowering them caused it to clank against the push rod.

I think it is supposed to be solid on the shaft. Is this correct? If so, is it attached with a pin? bolt? other?

> She does not look too bad in the picture,
> just a bit of cosmetics.

Well, once the hydraulics run right, it'll get me through the winter, when I can start seeing about replacing the front seal on the engine. It's throwing oil off the engine side of the pulley attached to the crank. The alternator should be a snap, and then come the cosmetics.

All the badges are there, though they need work on the attachment pins. The hood latches need work (I have two only). I will also need a left side grill and headlight, as well as taillights. But it's really not too bad at all.

Thanks for the tips so far, guys, you've been right on the money. With any luck at all, I'll be getting my manuals before I run into more problems. :-)

Regards, Larry

If I have got it right, the plunger that comes from the ram cylinder locates in a cast housing on the lift cross shaft. This cast housing is loose on the lift cross shaft and is not moving it.

The housing should be splined onto the cross shaft. You remove one lift arm then pull the cross shaft through the bushes on the outside and the centre cast housing.

If this is moving freely on the cross shaft then the splines must have failed on either the shaft or the cast housing.

Nice to know you have pressure though.

When you lift the top cover off, the pressure and return pipes at the front right of the lift need careful treatment. The pressure pipe is located by two things that look like halves of a broken spring washer. DO NOT LOSE. When replacing the lift it is also easy to slice the "O" ring on the pressure pipe. If the return pipe that goes back through a filter, is damaged, no return pressure is built up and the lift will not work correctly.

regards
Brian

Bummer. I was really hoping for a pin or bolt.

On the up side, I did manage to locate a cross shaft and housing for a reasonable (well, about $150 Cdn, perhaps $90 US) price. It should be here in a day or two.

I am also picking up an engine hoist to lift that sucker!

> Nice to know you have pressure though.

Sure is!

> When you lift the top cover off, the pressure
> and return pipes at the front right of the lift
> need careful treatment.

Now he tells me! :-)

> The pressure pipe is located by two things that
> look like halves of a broken spring washer.
> DO NOT LOSE.

Hmm.... I see a fitting that stands about 1/2" proud of the bottom casting, and has an O-ring on it. Are the locators usually in the top casting?

Thanks again for the tips.

Regards, Larry

The "broken spring washer" is around the pressure pipe and down in the axle housing. Sometimes the pipe pulls up with the top cover and the collets fly out and drop down into the oil.

Check that the return filter is OK. The bracket has been known to fracture and the whole lot wind round the gears. There is a mod. here. Originally the filter support was on the pressure pipe. This was changed to a mounting plate off one of the pump retaining bolts. If you have this, no problems.

The cross shaft pulls out from the side opposite the washer next to the centre casting. The splined area will not pass through the washer.

What do you mean having to get a hoist to remove the lift? We used to lift them off on our own!!! If you leave the top link bracket on and lock the movement with two pins to the axle, you can lift the front of the lift and piviot it right over. On second thoughts, perhaps the hoist is best. I do suffer from a bad back :0)

regards

Brian

> The cross shaft pulls out from the side opposite the washer next to the centre casting. The splined area will not pass through the washer.

Got it. It was quite a struggle. At first, I was going to try to drive it out the wrong way, because the parts that I bought were assembled a little differently than they were in the tractor.
Just to be sure, the washer is on the side of the arm OPPOSITE the cam, right?

When I say I drove it out, perhaps I should have said "I DROVE it out." After removing the end caps and the left side lift arm (I could not, and still can't, get the right side lift arm off the shaft). I put the bolt back into the left end of the shaft, to use as a sort of a holder for a 3/4" socket wrench, which I then commenced to pound with a 6 lb. sledge. It was slow going, and when the socket got to the level of the casting, I switched to pounding on a hardwood dowel to drive it out.

It finally came free, and what was there was 'interesting'. On the right side, the steel bushing and one bronze bushing (the inner one) were in very bad shape, the bronze one broken, and the steel one worn and corroded. The outer bronze one was dirty and not oily at all. I pulled all the bits and pieces out, and discovered a passageway leading to the area where the control lever goes through the casting. It's full of dirt. Whether it's just ordinary dirt or dirt and dried oil, is not clear, but that whole side was not lubricated at all.

This leads me to question 1. Is that an oil passage or just a passage that happened to be there? There does not seem to be any passage on the left side where the bushings go through the casting, though I won't know for sure until I get the three bushings out (all the left side bushings stayed in the casting).

This leads to question 2. The outer left side bronze bushing is very tight in the casting. The inner bronze one is quite tight, but can be moved with tapping one side, then the other. The steel one between is very loose. Is there an easy way to get these out? Should I even bother trying? They seem to be in fairly good shape, unlike their brothers on the right side.

If I need to clean out the passageway on the right side, how do I get the control lever assembly out? It appears to be held on by two bolts with a nut against a spring on the center shaft. Removing the bolts and nut was not productive.

I guess the bottom line is that I could have it working pretty quickly, good enough to last the winter, probably, but I wouold like to do it right if it can be done.

> If you leave the top link bracket on and lock the movement with two pins to the axle, you can lift the front of the lift and piviot it right over.

Hmm... the 'top link bracket'... is that the thing with the two holes to hold the stattionary end of a top link? If so, it looks like it unscrews, and that it has some special purpose, attaching to the control lever mechanism. Any hints?

Regards, Larry

As long as the filter support is not broken it will be OK.

Bushes in the arms are made of bronze. When new they are warmed in oil, the oil prenetrates the bronze then is trapped as it cools. This ensures the bushes are lubricated for life. I always assembled the bushes and cross shaft with lots of molybdinum grease.

The washer does go opposite the cam.

As long as the Control lever is free do not worry about it. It only needs to be moved if you are servicing the linkage. The handle has to be driven off before the two bolts are removed and the quadrant removed to free the linkage.

The bit at the back where the top link fits. The yoke that screws into the lift and fits to the linkage is used to sense the load being applied by a soil engaging implement. This is draft control. The implement trys to turn around the lift arms as it is pulled through the soil and the "push" from the top link moves the control valve via the linkage. Pressure on this point causes the linkage to raise, tension causes the linkage to lower.

What is important is the little roller that runs on the centre lift cross shaft cam. This sets the implement height above the ground when in position control. This roller should turn freely and not be too worn.

Try not to disturbe the linkage adjustments.

I would remove the ram cylinder by removing the aux service top plate and the studs that hold the ram cylinder on, fit a new piston seal and check a couple of things.

Below (or above) (depends which way up you have it) the control valve, the one with the "trumpet bit", is a most important slide valve that is operated by oil pressure in the return side of the hydraulic system. Remove the spring holder on the front of the cylinder, two 1/2"af short bolts. There you will see a plug with a threaded hole in the centre. Pull this plug out with a puller. DO NOT TRY AND DRIVE IT OUT FROM THE REAR. Doing so will damage the valve which hides behind it. Check the "O" ring on this valve and ensure that this valve slides easily in its channel. It is easy to trim the edge of the "O" ring when refitting the valve so have a care. On the other hand, the "O" ring can be disguarded with no detremental affect. But it is important that this valve is free as this is what causes your lift to lift by diverting the oil around the system.

regards

Brian