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Garden Tractors Discussion Forum

129 won't start.. what am I missing?

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Tom L

06-16-2007 07:00:48




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I'm stumped. My Cub Cadet 129 will not start. I thought I had a weak spark, so I installed a new coil. The points were too perfect to bother with so I left them and decided the condensor must also be ok. I replaced the plug. The battery was weak so I replaced it. When this first broke down, I was jumping it because of the weak battery, and the voltage regulator must have hung up because for a while the tractor was trying to crank slowly even with the key out. It did this with the ignition switch unplugged too, so I assume there was no problem there. I also checked but found no shorts in the wiring. After removing, looking at , and reinstalling the voltage regulator, that problem went away. I did find a loose head bolt and leaking head gasket, so I replaced that and torqued the bolts ... no help. The only other thing I've done was replace the float because it was sunk a couple of months ago and I had done a temporary fix. Since I was working on the mower, I put in the new float. Now the carb bowl seeps, which is frustrating, but I don't think that is causing the won't start problem.

When this all started, the mower was running great. I hit a stick which locked up the mower deck. The engine surged, like when climbing a steep hill. I immediately disengaged the mower deck and shut the key off. It hasn't fired since. I think I have fuel because when I choke it and give it throttle while cranking, the cranking slows and then speeds up when I open the choke and take the throttle down... like it's sort of firing and helping the motor turn. Also ... without even running the new plug is extremely carbon fouled. (That's why I checked the head gasket.) I've rebuilt this motor twice, so I know what really broken sounds like, and its nothing like that. I'm out of ideas, its been a week, and my yard is starting to look like a jungle. I'd sure appreciate any suggestions. I'm sure I'm missing something obvious.
Thanks
Tom

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2cents

06-23-2007 13:51:52




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 Re: 129 won't start.. what am I missing? in reply to Tom L, 06-16-2007 07:00:48  
Glad you got it!



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Tom L

06-23-2007 14:31:19




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 Re: 129 won't start.. what am I missing? in reply to 2cents, 06-23-2007 13:51:52  
Sorry to say, I guess I don't. I cleaned out the gas tank, had fuel running well again, but it was back to the same thing. I thought maybe I should have been looking at fuel all along. I was hoping to find a carb rebuild kit but couldn't, so I picked up a can of starting fluid. Even with the starting fluid, it won't fire. So.....

Okay.. this absolutely has to be electrical... I have compression with the new head gasket ... its not points ... not the coil ... not a condenser .. not the points wire ... not the plug .. not the plug wire ... Yep.. there is still one thing left. I put a voltmeter on the positive side of the coil with the key on and it read 11.28. I put the meter on the new (but slightly run down from all the cranking) battery, and it read 12.84. I'll start looking for a new ignition switch as soon as I test the wires to it and find they're fine also. I may just jump past the switch so I can mow in the morning. I suspect the mower started once because it was on a fresh charge, probably putting closer to 14 volts through the bad connection but still leaving more than 12 volts at the coil because of that strong charge. I could possibly clean up the ignition switch to make it work, but heck... this mower is just about completely tuned up lol .. I may as well finish the job. I will rebuild the carb also. It was working okay berore, but I should have put in new needles the last time anyway. Tonight though... I'm going fishing!

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2cents

06-22-2007 12:02:17




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 Re: 129 won't start.. what am I missing? in reply to Tom L, 06-16-2007 07:00:48  
Tom, Did you ever get it running?



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Tom L

06-23-2007 08:54:22




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 Re: 129 won't start.. what am I missing? in reply to 2cents, 06-22-2007 12:02:17  
It"s alive! Well.. almost. As I was putting things back together, I noticed that I was getting no fuel through the fuel line before I hooked it up to the carb. This is a new problem though. My carb has been leaking since I installed the new float when this all started so I know this clog is new. I blew backward through the line, got a strong flow of fuel, finished putting things together, and she started right up instantly. I shut it down to hook up the blade belt and it wouldn"t start. I found an empty fuel filter. I guess having the gas tank off dislodged some gunk or rust inside and that"s blocking the screen in the tank. That"ll be a simple fix.

Since I replaced the coil, plug wire, and wire to the points all at the same time, its still a guess as to what the original problem was. I"m betting it was the points wire though. It tested okay on the mower, but when I had the motor out and tested the wire while moving it around, it did break continuity occasionally.

Thanks for the suggestions. I"ll be back soon. Once I fix the brakes on the woods walk behind I just bought, I"ll be back to working on the 129. The hydro pump has needed replaced for a couple of years. I bought a used one two years ago, but never got around to installing it.
Tom

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Tom L

06-22-2007 16:07:41




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 Re: 129 won't start.. what am I missing? in reply to 2cents, 06-22-2007 12:02:17  
Not running yet. I got too busy this week to do much on it. The motor spent most of the week in the trunk of my car. I did set it back in the mower last night and bolted it in. I'll finish reassembling things tonight, once I get up enough desire to do that in this heat ... 98 degrees here.

The flywheel key was fine. Of course, this motor is timed through the cam, but I thought maybe a loose flywheel could still be a problem ... I doubt the motor would run without a flywheel's momentum. I did find a possible break in the points wire so I replaced it. I also picked up a new plug wire and condenser just in case. If it doesn't start tonight, I'll be buying a Kohler coil tomorrow. I thought coil at first, and the new one is a "standard" #805. It wouldn't surprise me if it turned out to be too weak for this motor. The guy at the parts store didn't look too confident when he gave it to me.

I'll post more tonight or tomorrow.
Tom

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Mike in Ind.

06-18-2007 18:35:11




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 Re: 129 won't start.. what am I missing? in reply to Tom L, 06-16-2007 07:00:48  
Did you check the gap on those points? Did you clean the head and piston when you had the head off?



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Tom L

06-18-2007 18:46:38




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 Re: 129 won't start.. what am I missing? in reply to Mike in Ind., 06-18-2007 18:35:11  
Yep ... the gap was perfect with the old points, and is perfect with the new ones. I also cleaned out the head. I'm happy to say everything under the head looks like the day I put the motor together. I pulled the motor tonight. I'll take it to work tomorrow and have a look at the flywheel key. I'm betting that's the problem.



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2cents

06-16-2007 11:59:47




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 Re: 129 won't start.. what am I missing? in reply to Tom L, 06-16-2007 07:00:48  
Thats what My first thought was, With the abrupt stop.And now the timing issues. Sorry for ruining your saturday,But it might let you have a Great Sunday 8>)



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Tom L

06-16-2007 10:18:55




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 Re: 129 won't start.. what am I missing? in reply to Tom L, 06-16-2007 07:00:48  
Thanks for the responses. I have voltage at both terminals on the coil. I didn't have any sandpaper here at home (believe it or not I own a body shop lol)... but I did just go ahead and install the new points. It seems to be trying a little bit harder to fire, but still won't start. I had an old condenser left over from the last rebuild so I put it on. It's impossible to say it was definitely a good one, although the condenser wasn't a problem when the motor broke the last time. (rod bolt came loose) I still think the spark looks a bit weak, but I'm making a judgement call there. It is a relatively strong orange color, and occasionally I see a hint of blue. It really feels like a timing problem to me. It will crank hard, then speed up as I mess with the throttle and choke, then when it gets close to firing, it backfires and practically stops cranking (this became more obvious when I put in the new points and put the charger on the new battery.)

Flywheel key ... hmmm ... well, all of the simple stuff is out of the way ... unfortunately that makes sense considering the symptoms and how this happened. You sure didn't make my Saturday any nicer though.
Thanks ... I'll take a look at it.
Tom

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El Toro

06-16-2007 15:28:21




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 Re: 129 won't start.. what am I missing? in reply to Tom L, 06-16-2007 10:18:55  
Use that cotton swab dipped in alcohol to clean those new points. Hal



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2cents

06-16-2007 09:15:11




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 Re: 129 won't start.. what am I missing? in reply to Tom L, 06-16-2007 07:00:48  
flywheel key?



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El Toro

06-16-2007 07:48:01




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 Re: 129 won't start.. what am I missing? in reply to Tom L, 06-16-2007 07:00:48  
If you have the auto type coil you need to check for battery voltage at the coil. With the points open you should have voltage on both terminals with the ignition switch on. If you do have voltage pull the plug wire and hold near a good ground and have someone make an attempt to start the engine. See if there's a hot blue spark. If the spark is weak or there's no fire. Take a piece of 320 wet or dry and clean the points and then clean them with a cotton swab dipped in alcohol. Then make another attempt to see there's good fire from the plug wire. If there is try to make a start. If its still weak or no fire replace the condenser. Hal

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