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Cotton Pickers for Jess in Calf.

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Harold H

11-17-2004 18:38:03




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Jess,

This post is to summerize all of the cotton picker postings we have had in the last few days on the various boards, for all to see on one board. In the United states there were only four production manufacturers of cotton pickers. They were; International, John Deere, (Ben Pearson)Rust, and Allis Chalmers. At least through the sixties, in order of most produced, International was 1st, John Deere was 2nd, (Ben Pearson)Rust was 3rd and Allis Chalmers was 4th. A number of manufacturers made cotton strippers. They were; Allis Chalmers, Case, John Deere, Hesston, International, Minneapolis Moline, Oliver, and White, and maby a few more. As previously stated, I am most familiar with International high drum cotton pickers, mostly through the 622's. The following are the basic identifing features of the various International models as I remember.

M-10 High Drum, rounded bottom edges and corners of basket, large lift springs, large fabricated single fan, cast aluminum head.

M-11 High Drum and Low Drum, rounded bottom edges and corners of basket, large lift springs, large fabricated single fan, cast aluminum head. Part way through production changed to basket with square corners and bottom edges. (I have never seen a low drum M-11).

M-12 High Drum, square bottom edges and square corners on basket, smaller lift springs, rounded pressed steel single fan, cast aluminum head.

M-14 Low Drum, square bottom edges and square corners on basket, small lift springs, rounded pressed steel single fan, cast aluminum head.(I have never seen a M-14 low drum cotton picker)

(All M series cotton pickers were also sometime known as HM series pickers as they could also be fitted to the H tractors)

114 Low Drum & 120 High Drum, low profile basket top, dual fans mounted behind operator platform (single fan was optional on 114 low drum), fabricated header.

114A Low Drum & 120A High Drum, high profile tunnel along top of basket (called tri-clean), dual fans, fabricated header, louvers in all doors(called tri-clean) flush type oil system.

(Tri-clean system and flush type oil system could be retrofitted to 114/120 pickers. When so equipped, they then looked just like the 114A/120A).

214 Low Drum & 220 High Drum, low profile basket top with mesh wire top, fabricated headers. Two row self propelled.

214A Low Drum & 220A High Drum, high profile tunnel along top of solid top basket (called tri-clean), fabricated headers, louvers on all doors (called tri-clean), flush type oil system.

(Tri-clean and flush type oil system could be retrofitted to 214/220. When so equipped they looked just like 214A/220A)

414 Low Drum & 420 High Drum, new different chassis and drive train layout from 214A/220A. High profile tunnel along top of basket, basket extension optional, wide guide fork optional.

416 Low Drum & 422 High Drum, internal improvements only, looks just like 414/420 except shields, plant lifts, and water tank were painted white. Basket extension was standard, wide guide fork with 11.00 x 16 tire was standard, basket packer was optional, header control was optional.

616 Low Drum & 622 High Drum Variable Speed, all new design, variable speed belt drive like combine belt drive, all welded fabricated headers, 11:00 x 24 guide wheel, basket packer optional, header control optional.

616 Low Drum & 622 High Drum Hydrostatic, hydroistatic drive, 11:00 x 24 guide wheel, basket packer standard, header control standard.

782 High Drum & Low Drum, new frame and revised drive train, hydrostatic drive, 11:00 x 24 guide tire, optional powered guide wheel.

I think I have listed most of the identifing features of these models.

Harold H

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Harold H

11-20-2004 14:44:07




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 Simple to self maintain picker in reply to Harold H, 11-17-2004 18:38:03  
In my opinion, the 416/422 was the last two row that was of a design that was simple for the owner operator to self maintain thus making it the best two row machine ever for the owner/operator/selfmaintainer. Everything was simple mechanical and straight forward where you could get to it. The 212/220 214A/220A were also simple but the 4xx series had a number of improvements over the 2xx series. The 616/622 was a higher capacity machine but it was much more complicated with either it's variable speed belt drive assembly or it's hydrostatic drive, both which required more maintenance than the straight gear drive on the 416/422 and earlier models, and all it's electric clutches which also could be maintenance prone, plus lots of other "monkey motion". For someone who didn't need super capacity, they could get everything they need or wanted on a 416/422 or 414/420; gas, LPG, or diesel engine (diesel was only optional on 416/422), cab, header control, basket extension, high lift, basket compactor, either as an option or standard and depend on lots of troublefree clean picking.

Harold H

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jess in ca

11-20-2004 22:02:38




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 Re: Simple to self maintain picker in reply to Harold H, 11-20-2004 14:44:07  
harold i agree with your opinion about the 422 and older machines. as far is maintenance and operation goes, if a person was mechaniclly
inclined and had some savy about pickers you could get a lot of cotton picked with few breakdowns, I was talking with a old friend today about the 220 days, greasing those bars at the end of the day after the dew comes in because when everything is warm they take grease better, getting grease up to your elbows working on heads, it makes a long day out of it but
sometimes you can start picking earlier by doing it.i never owned a 422 but i picked with a good friend once that had one, so i got some time in on his.i dont know anything about the 622 models,
my friends that used them had different opinions about them but the most was good but harder to work on, most gripes came from the early belt drive models. jess in ca

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Harold H

11-20-2004 00:23:26




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 High Lift Basket in reply to Harold H, 11-17-2004 18:38:03  
Another highly visible feature available on IHC two row pickers was the high lift basket. It was introduced as an option with the 214A/220A and could be retrofitted to the 214/220 pickers. I know the high lift was standard on the 416/422 but I don't remember if it was standard or optional on the 414/420, as a large precentage of the Mississippi Delta pickers were fitted with it. It basicly consisted of longer basket dump cylinders and long slots at the basket pivot points rather than the simple round pivot point. This attachment enabled the picker to dump in larger/taller cotton trailers which grew rapidly in size after the two row pickers became the norm.

Harold H

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jess in ca

11-20-2004 10:28:07




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 Re: High Lift Basket in reply to Harold H, 11-20-2004 00:23:26  
my (2) 220-A pickers both had that feature on them. i parted out a M-120 a few years back that had a high lift basket attachment on it, I saved the whole frame because of it, it has rollers on it for the bottom of the basket, our neighbor 1 mile down the road still has a M-120, his also has the high lift attachment mounted on it, for the 1 row models I dont know if that was a I H thing, or a after market item you could buy.mabey
it came out on the model 320(1 row. but I didnt see to many 1 rows with that feature. most of the 1 row s out here had the frame modified 1 foot higher to dump in the taller trailers. building up the 2" channel iron frame, extentions on the discharge chute,ram extentions.
I just got out the 414 - 420 operators manual , it shows the high lift basket attachment as special equipment.also on the 420 as special equipment was the basket extention, where you removed the basket lid and added in appx 9" and put the lid back on.the 220A had this as special equipment as well.another attachment available starting with the 414 420,& 416 422, was a pivioting type cotton packer in the basket,
a nice thing if you cant quite make it to the end of the row, saves from climbing up in the basket and tromping around...
jess in ca

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Harold H

11-20-2004 14:22:19




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 Re: High Lift Basket in reply to jess in ca, 11-20-2004 10:28:07  
I knew the high lift attachment was available for the one rows also, at same time as it was offered as an attachment on the new 214A/220A two rows and retrofitt for the 214/220, but we basicly didn't sell new one rows after the two rows came out. There were still plenty of one rows operating, but I don't ever remember retrofitting a 120 with the high lift. I don't think they would have fit a M-12 or older. If you wanted to high lift one of them would would have to make the attachment or modify a 120/120A attachment to fit.

Harold H

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NDS

11-18-2004 15:25:07




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 Re: Cotton Pickers for Jess in Calf. in reply to Harold H, 11-17-2004 18:38:03  
Harold: I have an early sixtys World Book encyclopidia that has picture of Case cotton picker. It has dual fans tall narrow wedge shaped basket and heads are split with inside head in front of right drive wheel and rear head behind drive wheel.It may be stripper but they call it a picker and say it leaves unopended bolls and heads looks more like picker. From looks of picked area it was doing good job even by todays standards. Have you ever heard of one of these if so were they experimental only. It looks like developed production model rather neat package. Off subject but two farms close to me have 5 new 6 row JD pickers each and they are not doing any better job picking than we did back in fiftys with our IH 1 rows. Sure can sack up a lot of cotton in a hurry though.

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NDS

11-18-2004 15:28:50




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 Re: Cotton Pickers for Jess in Calf. in reply to NDS, 11-18-2004 15:25:07  
After looking at Case picker again I believe it may be 1 row Rust with Case color and name.



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Harold H

11-19-2004 05:09:21




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 Re: Cotton Pickers for Jess in Calf. in reply to NDS, 11-18-2004 15:28:50  
The picker you thought was a case may have been an Allis Chalmers which is orange but may look like Case yellow in a picture. As to clean picking, some of the new multi row John Deere cotton pickers just have spindles that pick from one side of each row whereas all older pickers had spindles on both sides of each row. This is why old pickers could pick the stalk cleaner than newest six row models. Also new models are only 18 spindles high, so in big cotton it might have to bend over plus there are only about half as many spindles picking each row. However, new pickers are much faster with up to six rows each and as you know, production speed and efficiency is money.

Harold H

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jess in ca

11-19-2004 08:47:22




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 Re: Cotton Pickers for Jess in Calf. in reply to Harold H, 11-19-2004 05:09:21  
I have this same book with the case picker or stripper.its book (c) on cotton. world book encyclopedia 1961.it has case vertically on the discharge chute, the head is simular to a rust design. the cotton in the basket is to clean i think for it to be a stripper. photo is courtesy of J.I.CASE i will scan and send the photo when i learn how to do this.
jess in ca



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KIP

11-18-2004 10:57:34




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 Re: Cotton Pickers for Jess in Calf. in reply to Harold H, 11-17-2004 18:38:03  
Harold, thanks for the info. I printed it.
My dad bought a new IH picker mounted on a 340 in 1959 or 1960 for our farm in Rowell, NM. Was that a 114? We used to unmount the picker every spring and use the tractor to pull a harrow and a hay baler. He traded it in years later on a new JD 99 two row. Sure wished I could find that 340 and picker. That would make a very uncommon restoration piece.

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Harold H

11-19-2004 05:33:19




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 Re: Cotton Pickers for Jess in Calf. in reply to KIP, 11-18-2004 10:57:34  
Kip,

The 114A came out in 59 so it could be a 114 or a 114A. I don't know if the 114/114A would fit the 340 or not, so it may have been another model but probably was a version of the 114.

Harold H



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KIP

11-19-2004 08:19:24




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 Re: Cotton Pickers for Jess in Calf. in reply to Harold H, 11-19-2004 05:33:19  
Thanks. Donīt get many posts about old cotton pickers on this forum.



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jess in ca

11-17-2004 22:53:00




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 Re: Cotton Pickers for Jess in Calf. in reply to Harold H, 11-17-2004 18:38:03  
HI harold
a new post for combines and pickers, great..
a couple more to add to your list. the C-14
mounted on the farmall c tractor. low drum only, for cotton yielding 1/2 to 1 1/2 bales per acre,short to medium height cotton.
this also fits the super C and the 200 & 230
tractor.. also there was a H 10 H that came out with the M 10 H,, i will try tomorrow
to post the photos of the picker mounted on the B farmall, mabey somebody out there knows about it.in the magizine-the farm quarterly summer 1953 edition there is a small photo of a russian cotton picker.
mabey built by them, but has a wierd rust
look?? jess in ca

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Harold H

11-18-2004 05:29:36




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 Re: Cotton Pickers for Jess in Calf. in reply to jess in ca, 11-17-2004 22:53:00  
As I have mentioned, I am not that famaliar with low drums. I was not aware that there was ever a low drum #10. I knew they made a low drum picker for the Farmall C but I did not know what model number it was. Also, the #24 and #34 cotton pickers you mentioned earlier are still a mystery. Mabe one or both of them were for the Farmall B or they may have been special models to fit on another brand tractor? All IHC high drum pickers from the M-10 through the 782 were 20 spindles high and all low drum pickers from the HM-11 (and you say there was a low drum H-10) through the 782 were 14 spindles high. I don't know how many spindles the picker you mention for the B, #24? or #34? would be, but I would guess it was probably about 12 spindles high. I wouldn't think a B would be able to pick up a regular low drum header. Interesting for discussion and further knowledge.

Harold H

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jess in ca

11-18-2004 06:29:30




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 Re: Cotton Pickers for Jess in Calf. in reply to Harold H, 11-18-2004 05:29:36  
the 1944 publication from I H didnt mention that the h 10 h was a low drum, it just mentioned that there was 2 models the m 10 h, and the h 10 h. but i think it would of been a low drum model. i wonder if in the early days they didnt try an h on a high drum and it was under powered??? the head for the B picker is lower than a low drum, the head resembles a rust type design, its short and long. i dont have info to know if it had spindles, or A C,RUST type barb spindles.
the #34 issue on the head, (hm-34) i beleive is for - fits the h or m - 300 or 400, they did this with the 114 picker which from the photo of the water tank it says 3 4 h m 114.
but that head with m 24, that is a 14 spindle low drum. my dealer brochure talks about the 114 model, also mentions about a 111 model, i will read it through later to see what it says about this one, appearently its a low drum also. but i dont know what makes them different ,
jess in ca

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jess in ca

11-18-2004 20:49:42




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 H 10 H B cotton picker photos for Harold in reply to jess in ca, 11-18-2004 06:29:30  
harold, i read the book a bit, the H 10 H was a high drum model mounted on a H tractor.
the photo with 4 pickers in a row check out the third from the left, i think this the H 10 H model.notice the basket and discharge chute.
i am sending 5 photos total.hope its interesting.
jess in ca



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Harold H

11-19-2004 05:38:21




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 Re: H 10 H B cotton picker photos for Harold in reply to jess in ca, 11-18-2004 20:49:42  
Jess,

Where did you post the pictures? I can't find them. I knew I had never heard of a M-10 or H-10 low drum but nothing is out of reason in early offerings of any machinery. Even in the 60's you occassionally found a M-10 in the Delta.

Harold H



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jess in ca

11-18-2004 21:56:05




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 Re: H 10 H B cotton picker photos for Harold in reply to jess in ca, 11-18-2004 20:49:42  
trying to post the picture again,



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jess in ca

11-18-2004 20:57:57




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 Re: H 10 H B cotton picker photos for Harold in reply to jess in ca, 11-18-2004 20:49:42  
harold did the photo go through,??



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Harold H

11-19-2004 05:42:39




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 Re: H 10 H B cotton picker photos for Harold in reply to jess in ca, 11-18-2004 20:57:57  
I havn't found the photos anywhere. Where did you send them for posting?

Harold H



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jess in ca

11-19-2004 08:27:32




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 Re: H 10 H B cotton picker photos for Harold in reply to Harold H, 11-19-2004 05:42:39  
harold,
I tried to post a photo on a follow up but it didnt work, i guess i am not doing it right,I scanned the photo, its in my photobase.. then i typed the photo # in the optional image box(url, and sent it. i tried it twice ,i think i missed a step. jess in ca



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jess in ca

11-19-2004 14:26:51




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 Re: H 10 H B cotton picker photos for H in reply to jess in ca, 11-19-2004 08:27:32  
Harold,
photos are in stuck & troubled file, the photo i told you about with the 3 M 10 H pickers and the H 10 H third from the left didnt come out to good, i will try to zoom that in more and re submit it, i have some photo copys for you, my e mail- jsor58@sbcglobal.net jess in ca



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