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Dummy At Work. Advice?

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Allan In NE

05-17-2006 04:25:26

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Mornin' All,

Okay, I'm gonna rebuild the cutter head on this old swather. The last bar I overhauled was on a John Deere #8 mower clear back in the 60s sometime.

What's the proper proceedure? Strip it clear down and then align everything after the new guards are installed? Or, do I align the guards to the old ones, one at a time as I replace 'em?

My gut tells me to just rip and tear, but I have a feeling if I do that, I'm gonna ruin something.

Thanks for your help, how do you do it?

Allan

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Rick in Michigan

06-05-2006 12:10:11

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Re: Dummy At Work. Advice? in reply to Allan In NE, 05-17-2006 04:25:26

In my search for info on my 495 haybine I came across this thread, and since it is kind of current, thought I'd ask my question here.

I bought a NH 495 haybine 3 years ago. It did a great job until I replaced the sickle bar with a new one. Everything went well - for about 5 minutes. Then the bolt that goes thru the end of the bar and attaches to the wobble box broke. I figured maybe I stressed the bolt during reassembly. Bought new grade 5 bolts (gotta have a spare). 5 minutes of running - bolt broke again. Put in spare, same scenario. Maybe it needs grade 8 so off to the store I went. Installed grade 8 bolt. 5 minutes - broke again. Decided rather than replacing the grade 8 bolt and seeing the same thing happen, as well as something else probably break, I thought I'd ask here if anyone has any idea what is causing this.

I'm going to sharpen to old sickle bar and put it in to get me going but I hate to not be able to use the new one.

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JMS/MN

05-17-2006 17:32:09

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Re: Dummy At Work. Advice? in reply to Allan In NE, 05-17-2006 04:25:26

Put in new guards, align with inch and a quarter pipe four feet long. New sickle, check register, and cut.

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Allan In NE

05-17-2006 17:49:46

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Re: Dummy At Work. Advice? in reply to JMS/MN, 05-17-2006 17:32:09

Those guards won't break by bending 'em?

Thanks,

Allan

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JMS/MN

05-17-2006 21:18:20

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Re: Dummy At Work. Advice? in reply to Allan In NE, 05-17-2006 17:49:46

Bought a new 479? in 1975- ran it til 1980, bought a used 800 JD-ran that til 1990, bought a new NI 5209 discbine. With the NH and JD, never broke a guard by 'fine tuning' them. Always bought the company brand- not the retrofits- never broke a gaurd by bending them back to where they belong. (Why does gaurd look misspelled everytime I spell it?)

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Jim.UT

05-18-2006 09:25:05

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Re: Dummy At Work. Advice? in reply to JMS/MN, 05-17-2006 21:18:20

I have the same problem with guage. Is it gauge? guage? or gage?

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Allan In NE

05-18-2006 01:51:33

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Re: Dummy At Work. Advice? in reply to JMS/MN, 05-17-2006 21:18:20

Okay, that's what I'll do then. I really appreciate the help and I'll put the pipe to 'er.

Oh, the u comes before the a on "guard". :>)

Allan

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JMS/MN

05-18-2006 14:36:43

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Re: Dummy At Work. Advice? in reply to Allan In NE, 05-18-2006 01:51:33

And I was the eighth grade spelling champ! Graduated ninth, finished BS degree in less than four years! Isn't there something about use it or lose it? Had the memory plan last year- gu vs ga--- guard is: Gee U AR Dumb. Rats- didn't work for guage! Or gage. Jes' too many cervezas..... and now I can't remember Espanol for yesterday> which was el dia antes hoy, pero yo no recuerdo el palabra correcto!

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Randy as in Randy-IA

05-17-2006 17:27:25

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Re: Dummy At Work. Advice? in reply to Allan In NE, 05-17-2006 04:25:26

Hi , I expect you are mostly done this late in the day but I just put all new cutter parts on my International 990 and last year my Oliver 415 sickle mower . It took a couple of hours to get them all in perfect alignment and a couple of hours more to get the retainers down to hold the sections to within a .010 " tolerance . But I'm a stickler for detail . When I put my Oliver 415 bar together I could cut at around 7 mph in mixed grass with alfalfa . I tested the 990 in the front yard of the house and mowed 6" tall grass . It looked like it was cut with the lawn tractor . So if you take your time and set it right you'll get a great cut and a fast cut . Good luck ! ...Randy

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Jimmy King

05-17-2006 10:29:39

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Re: Dummy At Work. Advice? in reply to Allan In NE, 05-17-2006 04:25:26

I think when you put new guards in you will find it doesn't need alining Go with a factory built sycle with self sharping knives and bolts instead of rivits. remember the guards on each end are a little different, but if I remember right, it is cheeper to get a standard guard and use a hack saw on it just don't through the old ones away so the will have a pattern. As the other post said check the woble box for tightness.

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KEH

05-17-2006 10:23:43

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Re: Dummy At Work. Advice? in reply to Allan In NE, 05-17-2006 04:25:26

Allan,

The cutter bar in your pic looks straight, don't think you will have any trouble. Strip it and sight down the bar. If it is out of line, use large adjustable wrench and cheater bar to bend the steel back into shape. Will be surprized if it needs it.

KEH

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Nebraska Cowman

05-17-2006 09:51:49

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Re: Dummy At Work. Advice? in reply to Allan In NE, 05-17-2006 04:25:26

Parts is parts and an impact wrench will speed things up. O doubt you find much "aligning" to do. And the guys that think $500 is a lot of money don't cut much hay.

Even bad boys are just as good as they can be

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Iowa Jim

05-17-2006 10:49:28

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Re: Dummy At Work. Advice? in reply to Nebraska Cowman, 05-17-2006 09:51:49

You got that right on the $500 not being too much. Probably the same people that sell hay for $2/bale and smile.

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RickL

05-17-2006 06:20:52

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Re: Dummy At Work. Advice? in reply to Allan In NE, 05-17-2006 04:25:26

If you have all new and the correct parts strip it period clean up whats left real good and put it back together so everyhthing operate smooth. On those units make sure the reel is set correctly to keep sickle clean. those in my experience don't like damp conditions especially on the ends where it is wider then the rolls. Otherwisw you will be fine. Try out the center pivot discmoc you talked about and you won't mess with the unit you have anylonger. Disc units all I run,but there is somedifference in them alsoand in real thin stuff you need to slow rpms down or some brands will streak cut. 3 16wheel rakes schedules for this week assemble you want one

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Iowa Jim

05-17-2006 07:28:42

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Re: Dummy At Work. Advice? in reply to RickL, 05-17-2006 06:20:52

I agree with the assessment to move to a hydro-swing, but in my case I was able to get my NH 495 for much less than a 499. I gave up convenience for the time being as I work to afford a 499.

Jim

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RickL

05-17-2006 10:20:25

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Re: Dummy At Work. Advice? in reply to Iowa Jim, 05-17-2006 07:28:42

Hey thats fine cause as long as they have a sharp sickle and set right they will all do the job. Some just don't like damp conditions. Disc mo doesn't care just mow

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Myrl (PA)

05-17-2006 05:32:46

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Re: Dummy At Work. Advice? in reply to Allan In NE, 05-17-2006 04:25:26

Hey Allan the big thing on them new holland cutters with the wobble box is to be sure everything is in the center of the cutting stroke when you tighten the bushing bolt between the cutter bar and the wobble box. Otherwise it will run hard and knock the bushing right back out. ( Experience's can get expensive!! )

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Allan In NE

05-17-2006 05:37:21

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Re: Dummy At Work. Advice? in reply to Myrl (PA), 05-17-2006 05:32:46

Okay, will do.

Does a guy have to "repack" those crankshaft bearings, or do they lube from the grease gun?

Thanks,

Allan

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mjbrown

05-17-2006 08:24:03

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Re: Dummy At Work. Advice? in reply to Allan In NE, 05-17-2006 05:37:21

Lube from the grease gun I belive.

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RodInNS

05-17-2006 05:17:12

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Re: Dummy At Work. Advice? in reply to Allan In NE, 05-17-2006 04:25:26

Hey Allan,

I dunno the right answer, but I'm the rip and tear kind of guy. Go hog wild with the impact gun. You wanna line up the new guards, not line up to the old, worn out ones, right? I'm also more a disc mower kind of fella too..... so haybines aren't my area of expertise. It's so easy to slap a set of blades in them and run. So, anyway, we see what you're up to today. Have fun.

Rod

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Allan In NE

05-17-2006 05:26:03

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Re: Dummy At Work. Advice? in reply to RodInNS, 05-17-2006 05:17:12

Hi Ya Rod,

Local implement dealer has a four year old Hydroswing setting on his lot and wants $6K fer the darned thing.

Had to think hard about it for a few minutes, but really think I can make this old junker cut hay. All the goofy thing is, is a mower with a set of conditioning rollers. Right?

Allan

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WyoDave

05-17-2006 18:50:23

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Re: Dummy At Work. Advice? in reply to Allan In NE, 05-17-2006 05:26:03

6K for a four year old hydroswing. Thats cheap if you ask me. What model and size. I bought a new 16' New Holland two years ago and I can tell you that it was much more than 6K. Also my 6 year old model trade in was worth twice what they're asking.
David

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Allan In NE

05-18-2006 11:29:13

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Re: Dummy At Work. Advice? in reply to WyoDave, 05-17-2006 18:50:23

Hi Dave,

It is a 2001 499 which makes it the same exact machine as the 495, only in a hydroswing version. That puts it at a 12' cut, and I'll be nobody wants it because of it too.

When I was farming before, the custom guy always used a 16' machine on my hay. Got used to it and that size, to me anyway, was "just right" as far as the baler was concerned.

Allan

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mjbrown

05-17-2006 05:14:08

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Re: Dummy At Work. Advice? in reply to Allan In NE, 05-17-2006 04:25:26

Hi Allan;
If you really want to put new guards on it strip it down and cuff off the rust so the new ones pull up tight against the frame. Unless they are all bent out of whack you most likely will get good results from a new knife and new hold down clips at much lower cost.

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Allan In NE

05-17-2006 05:20:47

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Re: Dummy At Work. Advice? in reply to mjbrown, 05-17-2006 05:14:08

Yes Sir,

That's what I'm doing. New guards, sickel, bushing, bolts and retainers.

The guy who sold me the stuff says there just isn't much adjusting to do to the new guards, but someone mentioned the alignment.

The owner's manual goes in to great and gory detail about aligning the bottom of the guard, alingning the top of the guard and then the retainers last.

Was just wondering how much of this actually needs to be done on new stuff.

Thanks,

Allan

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mjbrown

05-17-2006 06:10:01

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Re: Dummy At Work. Advice? in reply to Allan In NE, 05-17-2006 05:20:47

Those old sickle bar mowers are not that touchy. I've got a 495 also and I haven't replaced the knife in a few years. I don't do much hay anymore. Last year I tuned it up by takiing a hammer and bending down the clips a little to make the sections run closer to the ledger plates and went out and cut hay. If yours has all the sections I bet it only needs a good "hammer tune".

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Jim.UT

05-17-2006 13:47:05

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Re: Dummy At Work. Advice? in reply to mjbrown, 05-17-2006 06:10:01

My wife's cousin was doing a "hammer tune" on a piece of equipment in the field (I forget the details). The problem he was having required him to swing up with the hammer. It was a big hammer and he was swinging it hard. It missed it's mark on one stroke. There was nothing to stop the momentum of the hammer head but his face. He was leaning over his work at the time.

The shiner he got was nothing short of amazing. A few days later his brother said to him, "that's the ugliest eye make-up I've ever seen". To which he replied, "it hurts when you put it on, too".

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pbutler

05-17-2006 08:24:36

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Re: Dummy At Work. Advice? in reply to mjbrown, 05-17-2006 06:10:01

From one dummy to another: :)

I don't have any experience with those but I rebuild a 709 sickle last year and am rebuilding a 20ft grain platform now.

I had no problems removing all guards and sicke, then put on new guards but didn't tighten real tight-then put in the sickle. Started at end closest to head and got is close. Then had dad watch and listen as I ran it by hand and only a couple sections that needed minor adjustments after that.

Not sure how much you want to spend but when I tear into one I have been saving old sickle as a spare and just replacing whole shebang with a new bolt on one from sickleservice.com (I think that is the name). One for that will run you about $250. But a new one sure does cut nice.

Paul

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pbutler

05-17-2006 08:27:09

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Re: Dummy At Work. Advice? in reply to pbutler, 05-17-2006 08:24:36

Told you us dummies think alike. I just read your post below. $500-ouch.

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