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Hydraulic pump ?s for mounting a Massey Ferg 220 Backhoe on my TD-6

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Anton

06-22-2000 10:07:57




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I just acquired a MF220 backhoe, 14' reach w/ vertical outriggers, and am installing it on my TD-6. I recently made a very stout 4-link ripper for the TD-6 and am making a custom quick hitch between it and the backhoe.

My ? is this: I need a hydraulic pump with more power than the TD-6's engine mounted unit, and I don't know which would be best. I would like to use as much of the 34 hp that the TD-6 develops, if new, to run the backhoe pump. This means I need to optimise for the flow vs. pressure that the MF 220 Backhoe was designed for. I've come to understand that pressures where limited to 1500 psi or less on older hydraulic equipment, to which this certainly applies. However, all of its plumbing, o-ring connections, etc. and cylinders, look like stuff that would be rated for higher pressures. I'd love to know what psi and flow I should target the MF 220 for. I believe this backhoe was made primarily for the MF 200 crawler, does anyone know what its hydraulic pump specs were?

A this point, with what I know my solution is this: Given about one horse power required per 1 GPM flow at 1500 psi I think a Prince 21-spline 40 GPM 1000 RPM PTO pump would work perfectly but I am not sure. If I connect this pump through a PTO extension shaft (6-spline 1 3/8" female to 21-spline 1 3/8" male)connected to the TD-6 tranny's PTO output shaft which turns at about 850 RPM, the output of the 1000 RPM rated pump will decrease 15% to 34 GPM. At this flow I might be able to get 1500 psi. If I set the reliefs to 2000 psi or so, I am thinking that when I bog the hoe down, my engine will likewise bog, which will increase my torque, and therefore my psi will go up as my RPM and flow drops off. This will achieve good breakout force while having fast cycle times.

Does anyone know if I am thinking straight? Please inform.
And thank you very much, in advance.

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Dan from PA

06-23-2000 13:00:28




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 Re: Hydraulic pump ?s for mounting a Massey Ferg 220 Backhoe on my TD-6 in reply to Anton, 06-22-2000 10:07:57  
You might start your search for a pump at
Link
Link
Link
Call Surplus Center (1-800-488-3407 sorry, no web site) and get a catalog. They have scads of hydraulic equipment, and other great stuff, too. It's a great catalog to have around while you're dreaming about your next project.
Is a TD-6 a crawler? What make?

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anton

06-24-2000 15:36:00




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 Re: Re: Hydraulic pump ?s for mounting a Massey Ferg 220 Backhoe on my TD-6 in reply to Dan from PA, 06-23-2000 13:00:28  
Yes, Surplus Center is great, I have had their catalogs for years. There used to be a surplus place in Los Angeles called E.T. Supply with cheap military hydraulic stuff, but I have not been in touch with them in years. If anyone knows of other surplus hydraulic catalogs, please post.

My TD-6 is a late 1950s International crawler sitting at about 11500# with a 34 drawbar horsepower diesel. I also have an older extended track TD-6 in very good condition that I use for parts with the OEM Bucyrus-Erie Loader option. I got it because it's engine was toasted from rain in the muffler.

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Daniel George

06-24-2000 19:22:27




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 Re: Re: Re: Hydraulic pump ?s for mounting a Massey Ferg 220 Backhoe on my TD-6 in reply to anton, 06-24-2000 15:36:00  
Yeah, I just saw a TD-6 profiled at the tail end of the U. S. Farm Report on TV this morning. It never rains, but it pours!



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Dan from PA

06-22-2000 21:17:17




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 Re: Hydraulic pump ?s for mounting a Massey Ferg 220 Backhoe on my TD-6 in reply to Anton, 06-22-2000 10:07:57  
Just some thoughts:
34 GPM on a backhoe small enough to fit on a 34 HP tractor sounds like a lot. I would double-check your resulting cylinder travel speeds. 34 GPM is going to move a 4" cylinder at about 11"/second. It is possible to have too much flow. If you're constantly having to feather the valves to keep keep the hoe controllable, you may have heat buildup problems.
I wouldn't count on a torque rise when your engine looses RPM. Do you have access to your engine's data? What does the power curve look like? I would size the pump to deliver the relief PSI at rated RPM.
I'm not sure I'd mess with the relief settings, though. You could be asking for trouble. It wouldn't hurt to check to make sure they're in spec. Not only would you be increasing the strain on lines, valves, and cylinders, but you're also increasing the loads on the structure of the hoe.
I don't know what a TD-6 is, but 850 RPM sounds like an oddball PTO speed. Too fast for 540, too slow for 1000. Did you measure this? You imply that it uses the 540 (6 spline) shaft. I would be leery of running 540 equipment this fast.
Good luck with your project. Post some pics if you get a chance.

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Anton

06-23-2000 11:25:30




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 Re: Re: Hydraulic pump ?s for mounting a Massey Ferg 220 Backhoe on my TD-6 in reply to Dan from PA, 06-22-2000 21:17:17  
Dan, thank you for your comments. I will post pictures when I get a chance.

Does anyone know the weight of the MF 200 crawler? I am curious as to how my 11500# TD-6's balance will be with this backhoe.

I just found out that the MF 220 backhoe is a mid 1960s unit and rated for the low-mid 2000 psi range and flows of just over 20 GPM. This is preferable to a low psi unit to me but changes my plans somewhat.

The PTO shaft* of a TD-6 does run at 862 RPM as per their service book. Add-on pulley drives, 540 RPM PTO unit with a clutch, etc. changed the ratio to that needed with rear mounted gearboxes. The 862 RPM comes from the rotational speed of the upper transmission jack shaft.

* By PTO shaft, I mean the shaft that International provided to attach PTO accessories. It is a 6 spline 1 3/8" shaft located about 16" from the rear of the tractor's main bulkhead. It is above and in front of the main drive bevel gear and is accessed through a port on the rear buldhead of the tractor. My TD-6 came used, with only the extension shaft part of the factory 540 RPM PTO. Installed in my bulkhead is a 1 3/8" shaft which is female 6 spline where it connects to the tranny inside the bulkhead, and bearing supported male 10 spline, again 1 3/8", receased at the rear of my bulkhead. As I can find no 10 spline adapters I am replacing this part with a conventional, though modified, 6 spline female to male extension. This will allow for a tight, easily serviced pump mount safely above my rippers and below my fuel tank. That is if I can locate a pump that provides the flow/psi I want at 862 RPM.

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