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Hay farming equipment.

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68 Mag

11-01-2001 10:14:37

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Well, after learning a bit about hay farming, I've decided to give it a shot for a year or two. However, I know next to nothing about it. First off, will a Ford 8N work well for hay farming? Second, what implements will I need, aside from a baler? I know I'll need a sickle bar and baler, but there has to be more. Maybe a 3 point spreader? The field was used for hay about 9 years ago, and now has a mix of some type of hay and weeds in it. After brush hogging it clear, what should I do to it to insure a decent crop?

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B.C.

11-02-2001 06:21:17

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Re: Hay farming equipment. in reply to 68 Mag, 11-01-2001 10:14:37

You got some good answers. I would add to it by saying the 8N might be useful for running a 7 foot sickle bar mower, raking, and hauling wagons (you will want a couple decent hayracks min)

But based on years of struggling to stretch a MH50 making horse hay, I'd strongly advise you to also get a cheap but useable wide front live PTO 45 hp gas tractor to pull the Deere 14T or NH 68 pto baler. Can you say Allis WD45?

Also, have in mind one or two teenager equivalents who will be willing to throw bales the days when push comes to shove.

This may not seem cheap but hay does run 1.50 to 2.50 a bale these days, so a little arithmetic will tell you where and when the break even point is.

Good luck, and be safe.

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Jim Ct

11-02-2001 08:40:22

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Re: Re: Hay farming equipment. in reply to B.C., 11-02-2001 06:21:17

Break even!!! once you get the bug you'll bedying to start haying cursing during it proud when done and impatient to start again.Read that pasture FAQ site then you'll find something to keep busy the rest of year and before you know it your farming GOD BLESS.

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B.C.

11-02-2001 10:40:12

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Re: Re: Re: Hay farming equipment. in reply to Jim Ct, 11-02-2001 08:40:22

You will notice I didn't say anything about the haymaker themselves paying them anything per hour. As an obsession, this sort of thing is one of the less socially harmful pursuits. But I've not met too many people that ever got rich doing it.

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Jim Ct

11-01-2001 20:55:59

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Re: Hay farming equipment. in reply to 68 Mag, 11-01-2001 10:14:37

I don't want to dicourge you but get the machine home first.Its easy to get going in all this but you have an old machine that isn't 100% yet and your planning on tackling haying as a novice.Your going to need warm bodies at the right time and a little mentoring in person-the guy with the experience will be making his own hay at the same time.The machinery at 100% then you have the help then the weather when it goes right its great but when something goes wrong it is an exerices in frustration. Go to www.18 JAMES.com/rural/pasture.html
This has to do with pastures and may be some help with future ?? Think of a 2nd tractor in case yours has problem.Maybe a nieghbor/mentor.Connections help when a machine or implament goes down. Equipment-basic sickle bar,rake,tedder ifyou like ( wouldn't be with out one but I'm in a humid region) baler.The extras wagon/tks,barn or storage area,conveyor(if need be),pallets for ground storage.Finally a Market.Rember the landscapers and builders for the mulch in fact start with them as customers then feed hay sales. I don't want to disenhearten you I know your dying to use the machine,but if it a bit much go slow.The field:pasture it or part and feed the hay out to the animals or let someone lse use part and you work into it.You'll find that onthing leads to anther.As a side note you can use a bush hog to mow hay 1- you lose volume because it is shredded 2-the hay will come out like 2nd cutting.
Good Luck Jim

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68 Mag

11-02-2001 14:46:09

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Re: Re: Hay farming equipment. in reply to Jim Ct, 11-01-2001 20:55:59

Well, I believe I'll be able to get the tractor home next saturday. I dont intend to use it for much of anything for a month or so, gotta get it fixed. However, I'll take our Super A and turn over my fields-to-be with a plow and disc. Instead of bush-hogging I'll just turn it over into the soil. Then I'll have the N running, and start fertilizing. Then plant it, then continue fertilizing. I know it varies a lot by region, but how much does the cheapest hay seed go for, usually?

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Tim(nj)

11-02-2001 21:04:29

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Re: Re: Re: Hay farming equipment. in reply to 68 Mag, 11-02-2001 14:46:09

Make those fields as smooth as you can. Plow, disk, harrow (ten times if needed), and roll them with a packer. It'll save a lot of trouble when it comes time to mow and rake. Don't buy your seed on cost basis alone. Look for a grass that can give you the type of hay you want. You may need to get in contact with a county agent/ extension service to determine what works best in your area. Get your soil tested so that you can adjust fertility and pH. Good stands start with good soil preparation.

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Don H

11-01-2001 20:53:46

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Re: Hay farming equipment. in reply to 68 Mag, 11-01-2001 10:14:37

I agree with Wayne-Mn and Duane. An 8n is on the small side but if you don't have big hills, windrow your hay singly, you can get it done. In the late 50's and early 60's my brother and I baled thousands of bales every year with a pto John Deere 14T pulled by an H Farmall. We did it in third gear on hay that yielded about 120 bales per acre, and pulled the wagon behind. That was cranking the bales out about as fast as the guy on the wagon (me) wanted to load them. You don't need a big tractor or even live pto, although I certainly would recommend it if you can get it.

Cost? Wayne is right. You can find haying equipment at low cost if you watch. I think you can buy a baler, mower and rake that will do the job you have in mind for not much more than $1000.
Good luck to you. I'm sure you will enjoy the sense of accomplishment that will come from doing what you have in mind.

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Wayne-MN

11-01-2001 15:13:39

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Re: Hay farming equipment. in reply to 68 Mag, 11-01-2001 10:14:37

My first baler was a 14T John Deere with a tounge mounted Wisconsin pulled by my 8N. It worked great, but I sure didn't set any production records. I paid $300 for the baler at an estate sale. I still use the combo in tight areas as you can turn on a dime.

If you shop around there are deals to be had. In the last 8 years I've bought:
1. Dearborn 7 ft 3 pt mower, $40 including all mounting hardware. Spotted in a guys yard, 300 miles from home by my inlaws. Needed all knives and ledger plates. About $250 in parts to make it usable. 2. Farmall 460, $2300 w/ new paint, good rubber and a junk TA. Put $1200 in the TA and have a damn good tractor.
3. 9 ft 3 pt rake, $800. It was near new.
4. Intl #37 pto baler, $1000. Nice shape, older gentleman was done farming.
5. New Holland 469 haybine, $400. Very used. About $300 in parts and it's a decent machine.

My 8N and Ford 850 were bought new by my grandfather and came with the farm when I bought it from him. So my point is you don't have to a fortune in equipment to put up a couple thousand bales a year, just don't be in no hurry. I stared with one field and did more as equipment allowed. I got less than $7000 invested in my vintage stuff, not including yearly maintenance stuff.

Happy haying
Wayne

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Duane

11-01-2001 14:39:01

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Re: Hay farming equipment. in reply to 68 Mag, 11-01-2001 10:14:37

Believe it or not, but our 8N use to run our entire dairy farm back in the 60's. We had 68 acres and 12 Holstines. I know, not a large farm, but it was a living....almost. This was before bulk tanks.

That little 8N did run an old McCormick bailer and pulled a wagon behind too. Of course we had to give the old 8N a complete overhaul every ten years though.

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Steve W

11-01-2001 13:22:21

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Re: Hay farming equipment. in reply to 68 Mag, 11-01-2001 10:14:37

Well....you can do everuthing with your 8N but run the bailer....Plow, disk, seed, fertilize, mow, rake & windrow. And the tools to do all this are cheap. 8N's were popular for a reason, and will serve you well. That all assumes you want to do it "antique" style. Obviously, if you want it done really fast, you need to modernize. Your biggest issue is that your 8N is a little small to bale on anything but small balers on flat land, and then you won't be able to pull a wagon. Plus, without Live PTO, your left foot will sure be sore.

So if I was you, I might do it in two stages...first, do everything with your N and contract the bailing for a year or two. Then if you like it, get a decent square baler, and a tracor with live PTO and 40 plus HP. Of course you will still need your 8N for raking and cutting.

Take Care
Steve

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JIMVA

11-01-2001 12:41:30

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Re: Hay farming equipment. in reply to 68 Mag, 11-01-2001 10:14:37

Dont let joe scare u can find good equipment for half the price joe is talking about a good sickle mower $200 to $1000, a disc mower requires a 50hp tractor, $1000 to $3000, you dont need that. a hay rake $400 to $1500, a good square baler $500 to a $1500. there is a lot of good equipment out there and if u start looking now buy the time spring gets here u can have all the basics (sickle mower, rake, baler, and tractor and mayber a tedder-which fluffs the hay if it gets rained on) u could probably get all this and have less then $11,000. joe was giving u the top dollar prices for equipment look around for deals on this stuff. there out there

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Joe

11-01-2001 11:46:26

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Re: Hay farming equipment. in reply to 68 Mag, 11-01-2001 10:14:37

I think I answered your original post..... Did you decide what you were going to do? Leave it and fertilize it or plow and sow it? The 8N is going to be too small I'm afraid especially for the baler. Even most small square balers require atleast 35-40 HP to operate. As far as cutting it, I use an 8-foot sickle bar behind my Ford Jubilee to cut stuff three-three and a half feet high and don't have much trouble. A disc mower is ideal if you want to spend a little extra. They are simpler, cut better, and can handle more than the regular sickle mower. Depending on how big you want to go, you might even think about a small swather (mower-conditioner). Three-point spreaders are handy and pretty cheap. As far a balers go, do you want square or round bales? Used square balers are cheap and simpler than the round baler. Used round balers are more expensive and take more to be kept up. As well, the used round baler is something that has to looked at carefully when you go to buy. They are complex, full of moving parts (belts, pulleys, bearings, gears, chains, etc..) and can be a nightmare if you pick the wrong one that isn't in the best shape. Depending on what you grow you'll probably need a rake. It's used to turn cut hay into rows and turn it over to allow it dry evenly before baling. So, lets look at what you've got here. A) Tractor (40HP or so) older, used but in good condition: $6000-$8000. B) Mower (sickle/disc) used but in good condition: $1000-$2000. C) Baler (square/round) used in good condition: $1500-$4500. D) Rake-used: $750-$1200. That looks to be anywhere between $9250 and $15,700 to get the basics. This is not to scare you or talk you into spending a lot of money, rather just the reality of doing it from start to finish yourself. I don't know what other implements you might have (plow, chisel, drill) or might need. You could do your own plowing, planting, fertilizing with what you have and hire someone to cut it and bale it. It would be cheaper and since this is your first stab at it you might not want to go buying a set of equipment that is going to sit for most of the year while it's still costing you. If you wanted to go all out and get everything you need you might consider custom cutting and baling for others to help pay for the cost. There are many variables which could determine what you need and don't need. Also, how will you move and store this hay? Squares bales are old-fashioned hard work to haul and store. Round bales are much easier but youll have to have a loader or a fork or a bale buggy to move them. Anyway, didn't mean to go on..Hope this helps.

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68 Mag

11-01-2001 14:50:47

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Re: Re: Hay farming equipment. in reply to Joe, 11-01-2001 11:46:26

Thanks for the help guys. I've decided to bushhog the field, then turn it over with a plow and disk. Then I think I'll use a 3 point spreader, for sowing, and then use the same spreader for fertilizer pellets. Then I'll use a sickle bar to cut it, and then rake it, then probably hire out the baling the first year, or maybe pick up a used, small, square baler at an auction. Any opinions?

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Alan Farley

11-01-2001 20:39:48

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Re: Re: Re: Hay farming equipment. in reply to 68 Mag, 11-01-2001 14:50:47

Don't forget you will need 2 or 3 hay wagons probaly. Do you have a good place to store these square bales? If you have hills the 8N might have a problem pulling a wagon behind the baler.

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paul

11-01-2001 17:01:30

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Re: Re: Re: Hay farming equipment. in reply to 68 Mag, 11-01-2001 14:50:47

Sounds good.

For balers, JD & NH are the better brands, anything else goes a lot cheaper, but that's because a lot of them have trouble tying knots. You might get lucky on a different brand, or you might get a lemon with JD or NH, but the smart money is on those 2 brands.

Your tractor could maybe do the work, but it is very boarderline for baling. Especially without live pto, that just makes baling no fun at all. There also are older balers with small Wisconsin motors on them, the tracotr only pulls them, but then you have another engine to maintain. So, it's possible to bale with your tractor, but would not be the best.

Those spinners don't always do very well with fertilizer, make sure you get one that can handle the stuff. Or, if you are in an ag community, the local coop will sell & spread it for you for an extra couple bucks an acre. They also do the soil sampling, make recomendations, etc.

--->Paul

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