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Historic plow specifications

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Maralee Wernz

12-14-2001 13:38:43




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Hello, folks! I'm hoping that someone could help me here in the archaeological world. We have identified several plow furrows that possibly date as far back as the early 1880s (but could be as recent as the 1960s), but are trying to find information on what type of plow may have been used for these furrows. The furrows measure approximately 60 inches apart from center to center, and are approximately 9 inches in depth. We suspect that a double plow was used...I have checked in old Sears catalogues, but they do not seem to be specific enough in information for our needs. If anyone out there has any ideas as to what implement may have been used or where I could find further information, it would be appreciated. Thank you for your time!

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Maralee Wernz

12-18-2001 14:30:32




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 Re: historic plow specifications in reply to Maralee Wernz, 12-14-2001 13:38:43  
Well, folks, thanks for all the feedback. Your comments helped confirm some of our suspicions, and also planted new seeds (no pun intended) in our heads. However, some clarification might be needed. While we have discussed the wagon ruts idea (thank you Bob-KS and Bob Kerr), there are several of these "furrows" that are fairly consistently distanced from eachother, which would mean that with the kind of depth present several wagons would have had to have used several paths multiple times that were spaced in such a way to make this kind of an impact. Also, any evidence of early wagon ruts would have likely been wiped out by later known agriculture and development activities on the property in question (within the eastern Phoenix, AZ, metro area). There was a comment by Jim regarding historic horse-drawn plowing, and we are entertaining that thought, as well. Any ideas as to what blade sizes and single plows that may have been used at that time that would have created a furrow to a depth of 9" or so (that's the kind of information we could not glean from the old catalogues)? I would also be more interested, Jim, in hearing about plowing draining furrows in heavy clay to help drain water away (just for future reference, since nearby was a local brickyard with large clay resources--perhaps this may have been an issue for the current topic as well). Paul asked in his response what types of crops we thought might have been grown in the area. Sorghum, corn, melons, cotton, possibly sugar cane. So far, furrow distancing for these types of crops (with the exception of sugar cane for which I can find no info., and cotton which comes the closest with furrows 36-40" apart) do not correspond to our distance between furrows of approximately 60" apart from center to center. The furrows themselves are approximately 29" wide at their widest point near the then surface. Of course, some of the original surface has likely been displaced due to post-years agricultural and developmental activities, so it's difficult to say specifically what the true upper width of those furrows may have been. And finally, Jake mentioned a Hawks-Renfroe Breaking plow, Model R (unless he was pulling my leg). If serious, any idea what year these began production, and by what company (if Hawks-Renfroe is not the company)?
Whew!!! I do appreciate and comments that you might have. Thank you for your time and interest.

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Bob Kerr

12-21-2001 16:41:36




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 Re: Re: historic plow specifications in reply to Maralee Wernz, 12-18-2001 14:30:32  
Hi Maralee, These are out in Phoenix?! ok I have seen old photos somewhere of a very large disk plow that was used for busting sage brush land and it was pulled by a steam traction engine. this plow had large round disk blades that could have been 36" in dia.or larger, and had several of them.The beams of the plow looked like large "I" beams. I think I saw the picture in a traction engine catalog but I don't remember which company. It could have been Case, Port Huron, Nichols Shepard or Rumley -Advance. Once they busted the sage, the plow would have moved on to the next homesteaders place as it was too big to work well for farming.This thing uprooted the sage and everything else so they could pile up the brush and burn it.Is it possible that this land was busted like this and they just never finished it off? Sometimes a homesteader from back east though he could work arid land like he did back home and things wouldn't work out like he planned. my Grandma's cousins went to Idaho back around 1916 with the promise that a large irrigation canal was going to bring them water, well the canal failed and dried up. so they were kind of stuck until they moved. I think that was around Laverne, ID if I remember right, but I can't find it on the map, maybe it failed in a big way and is a ghost town now.

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Maralee

12-27-2001 06:37:03




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 Re: Re: Re: historic plow specifications in reply to Bob Kerr, 12-21-2001 16:41:36  
Hello, Bob! Wow, thank you for the information. I'll do some follow-up. I had briefly wondered about land busting plows, but I didn't realize that the disks were quite that large, so this may be a viable option for us. It may take me a few days, but I'll let ya'll know what I find out.



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TB

12-19-2001 15:41:06




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 Re: Re: historic plow specifications in reply to Maralee Wernz, 12-18-2001 14:30:32  
Is it possible that several furrows with a smaller plow and the lose dirt hand removed could explain this? Just a shot in the dark.



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jim

12-15-2001 07:42:37




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 Re: historic plow specifications in reply to Maralee Wernz, 12-14-2001 13:38:43  
If you're serious , it could be just normal plowing practices from the horse-drawn days. Here in heavy clay , the lands were kept very narrow in order that the dead furrows would help drain the water away.



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Richard

12-15-2001 05:59:29




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 Re: historic plow specifications in reply to Maralee Wernz, 12-14-2001 13:38:43  
In te 50's out in California, rancher/farmer made himself a plow that draft down 6 feet pulled by several Cat crawlers. Is on film in the 51 John Deere days video.



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Poppin' Johnny

12-15-2001 05:46:50




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 Re: historic plow specifications in reply to Maralee Wernz, 12-14-2001 13:38:43  
Whoa, that was a heck of a plow! But I bet my good ol' John Deere 60 could pull 'er in 4th gear, part throttle. Hehehehe



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paul

12-15-2001 14:57:22




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 Re: Re: historic plow specifications in reply to Poppin' Johnny, 12-15-2001 05:46:50  
You might be right - you didn't mean in the ground, did you? ;)

Hope she comes back & fills us in on what these 'furrows' are.

--->Paul



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Bob - KS

12-15-2001 03:11:28




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 Re: historic plow specifications in reply to Maralee Wernz, 12-14-2001 13:38:43  
Are you seeing the remains of dead furrows 60 inches apart? Are you sure these aren't ruts made by wagon wheels? There have been cases where wagon ruts left from the mid 1800's have been found along the trails used in westward migragion.

Just another thought.



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Bob Kerr

12-15-2001 13:05:49




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 Re: Re: historic plow specifications in reply to Bob - KS, 12-15-2001 03:11:28  
I bet Bob-KS has a point. It would depend on where in the country you are, but a path that a farmer would have used wagons on would end up making wider tracks than just one wagon would leave since the wagon wouldn't always follow exactly in the same rut. Plus if the loads were heavy the wheels will push down the traveled part and create "small hills" on both sides of the wheel tracks. My Dad has land In Owen County In and there are places out in the woods where there are tracks like that. some of the tracks there were made by trucks or crawler tractors back in the 30s when there was a forest fire and they brought in equipment to fight it or replant the area with pines which are still there.Other tracks are different and we think they were wagon tracks possibly from wagon loads of wood being hauled out or from a thing called a Log Arch which makes dragging very large logs easier.They have two large wheels that are spaced fairly narrow to get between trees easy and have a"crane" like arch that would tend to lift the end of the log as you pulled it. Back in the early 1800s in Indiana 4-8 foot diameter trees were not uncommon and most of those great woods were logged out by the 1880s for saw mills and for firewood for the steamboats on the Ohio River and the railroads before they went to using coal only.Some of those trees were so large they would blow them up with Black Powder to get them down to a size they could work with. They also did that with the red woods out in California. I have seen a black powder log splitter a friend out there found out in the woods with a broken retaining chain! They chained the "pipe" of the splitter down to the tree incase it shot out of the log when it went off so they wouldn't lose it. they lost this one when the chain broke! I would look into the furrows you found being created from logging. The more I think about it , without seeing them, I bet that is how they were made.

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Jake

12-14-2001 14:22:41




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 Re: historic plow specifications in reply to Maralee Wernz, 12-14-2001 13:38:43  
I think you're pulling our legs. Pretty good one, though. The only plow I know that could make furrows like that would be the Hawks-Renfroe Breaking plow, model R. Paul Bunyan's ox pulled one. Maybe he's the one who did the plowing.



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paul

12-14-2001 14:03:00




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 Re: historic plow specifications in reply to Maralee Wernz, 12-14-2001 13:38:43  
Very different machines are used for different crops, and in different locations.

While nothing rings a bell for me 'here', it would really help if we knew the location & what crop(s) you suspect was being grown.

Sure doesn't sound like corn, oats, or wheat country..... Tobacco or cotton or ???? How wide are the furrows, a slit, or the full 60" of ground turned over?

--->Paul



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