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Can you put oats on spring plowed hay ground?

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wannabe

04-11-2002 13:15:39




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I have about 40 acres in SW Wisconsin. I'd like to spring plow one of my contour strips and plant oats. I don't really have a need for corn, but I know corn-oats-hay is the usual rotation.

A farmer neighbor (a very knowledgable man) reccomended not planting oats on spring plowed alfalfa because it was too hard to get a good seedbed.

Anybody out there have any information about this? Are there any less damaging alternatives to moldboard plowing that could work with 50hp or less tractors?

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wannabe

04-12-2002 12:44:44




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 Re: Can you put oats on spring plowed hay ground? in reply to wannabe, 04-11-2002 13:15:39  
Thanks for all the great tips. Sounds like there are too many downsides to do oats this year. I was just thinking about spring plowing because the idea of the ground sitting bare all winter on a hillside makes me worry about erosion.

The chemical solutions might work the best, but we farm organically, so they aren't an option.

Maybe I'll look into borrowing a neighbors planter and putting in some corn.

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Frank

04-11-2002 16:21:57




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 Re: Can you put oats on spring plowed hay ground? in reply to wannabe, 04-11-2002 13:15:39  
One other caution: Do NOT attempt to reseed alfalfa back into this ground. There is some sort of toxicity in the old alfalfa roots that inhibits the new (and expensive) alfalfa seed from growing. I tested this theory once -- lost my alfalfa seed!



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Frank

04-11-2002 16:16:55




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 Re: Can you put oats on spring plowed hay ground? in reply to wannabe, 04-11-2002 13:15:39  
One other caution: Do NOT attempt to reseed alfalfa back into this ground. There is some sort of toxicity in the old alfalfa roots that inhibits the new (and expensive) alfalfa seed from growing. I tested this theory once -- lost my alfalfa seed!



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paul

04-11-2002 15:36:02




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 Re: Can you put oats on spring plowed hay ground? in reply to wannabe, 04-11-2002 13:15:39  
Anything is possible, so you can try. I assume about a 2 bottom plow with the 50 hp tractor, will give it a workout in alfalfa. The plow is your best option for tillage. If you have a good corn planter, you can kill the alfalfa with Roundup mix, then notill corn into it.

The negatives for oats:

Oats needs to be seeded in the ground REAL soon now. You need to plow, work up the lumps, & catch a rain to mellow the soil. By then the window for oats will be over, & you will not get much yield.

Going to be real hard to get the ground leveled & mellowed for oats even with favorable conditions.

Oats comes up pretty uneven in spring plowing, you will have light testweight & lower yield, uneven drydown.

Too much N from the alfalfa may cause the oats to grow too heavy & flatten.

Weed control could be interesting to say the least, as there is generally a lot of grasses in an old alfalfa field & this will outgrow & smother your oats - can't cultivate, and really no chemical options in oats.

On the other hand, corn has up to a month before you lose big time on yield so you can get the land in shape, weed control will have more options, & the N from the alfalfa will be put to good use.

Of course, just this year conditions will be perfect for this to work with oats, & the corn will turn out lousy.... Luck of the draw on the weather, but _normally_ corn would be a much better choice to follow spring plowed alfalfa.

--->Paul

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johndeeregene

04-12-2002 07:14:30




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 Re: Re: Can you put oats on spring plowed hay ground? in reply to paul, 04-11-2002 15:36:02  
why dont ya kill the growth you have now with chemical an go it an disk it up the best you can then go back an harrow. or disk very lightly. it is best to plow in the fall so the frost will break up the soil. but it is to late for that. so this would be a option. then go back in an plow this fall. an do it right



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paul

04-12-2002 14:24:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Can you put oats on spring plowed hay ground? in reply to johndeeregene, 04-12-2002 07:14:30  
With it's root system, alfalfa works better with no-till if you spray it. It takes a while for the Roundup to kill the roots, you can have seed in the ground while waiting for the roundup to work.

Different soils might be different, but around here that's the best.

--->Paul



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Oldjohn

04-11-2002 15:26:19




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 Re: Can you put oats on spring plowed hay ground? in reply to wannabe, 04-11-2002 13:15:39  
I've done it for many years in Central WI. Took over my Grandfathers farm and had to start renovating everything (sat empty for 5+ yrs). Just Plow, Disk and spring tooth drag on the clay and hope they don't get too tall. If they blow down real bad, disk them in if you don't really need them!



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Charlie

04-11-2002 14:06:37




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 Re: Can you put oats on spring plowed hay ground? in reply to wannabe, 04-11-2002 13:15:39  
If you're following oats on alalfa ground it's possible there is so much nitrogen in the soil the oats will get too tall and flatten in a storm easier. Corn loves all that nitrogen and thats one reason to follow with corn. I've never followed alalfa with oats so I'm just speculating.



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JMS/MN

04-11-2002 13:44:04




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 Re: Can you put oats on spring plowed hay ground? in reply to wannabe, 04-11-2002 13:15:39  
If your spring tillage is limited to a tractor of 50 hp or less, forget the chisel plow, and moldboard it. Better turning under of the sod.



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JMS/MN

04-11-2002 13:41:25




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 Re: Can you put oats on spring plowed hay ground? in reply to wannabe, 04-11-2002 13:15:39  
I don't see any problem with following alfalfa (assuming your hay ground is alfalfa) with oats, unless you plan on interseeding with alfalfa- then it's a matter of autotoxicity. Alfalfa land going back into alfalfa does poorly, because alfalfa leaves a toxic material in the ground that kills the alfalfa planted the next year. That's why it's so hard to improve an existing alfalfa stand by reseeding. You need about a 16 month interval to go back to alfalfa. In central Mn, spring plowing in clay soil makes for crusting problems, but if necessary, plowing should be followed by a discing within one day to reduce the clay bricking up. Your neighbor's concern about plowing may relate to the sod residue interfering with getting a good seedbed- a disc with multiple passes is the best implement to cut that sod- much better than a field cultivator. Oftentimes alfalfa goes into corn or beans so summer cultivating cuts up the remaining sod. One caution with beans after alfalfa-herbicides for beans will not kill volunteer alfalfa, but round-up ready beans after alfalfa are ok because roundup will kill alfalfa. That's why farmers typically followed alfalfa with corn, plus the advantage of the leftover Nitrogen from the alfalfa. After one year of corn, the volunteer alfalfa was gone, and beans or other crops could be planted without interference from the previous crop.

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