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Howse vrs. King Kutter

which is a better buy?

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John Ryan

07-25-2002 09:14:40

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I am looking to purchase a 6' rotary cutter. Since they are about the same price, would I be better off with a Howse or a King Kutter? And why? ----- FYI,I'm buying it for a Ford model 1920 (28.5 hp PTO)---- and my other question is what will a higher hp rotary cutter do for me? For instance... 50hp vrs 75hp which are two options Howse offers.

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Burrhead

07-28-2002 15:02:55

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Re: Howse vrs. King Kutter - which is a better buy? in reply to John Ryan, 07-25-2002 09:14:40

I've got a 6' KK on a 28hp riceburner that's exactly the same setup as you have there.

I would go with the 6'KK finish mower.

Contrary to what's been said the finish mower requires less HP than a same size rotary and does a lot better job for your once a month on 20 acres.

There is no comparison on operator comfort between a rotary and finish mower. On that tractor size you have the rotary will beat you to death and if the grass gets a little high because of rain delay or whatever that 28hp Ford will not run a 6' rotary mower very good.

Plus that the front end of your tractor will be off the ground anytime you try to lift the hog type but it will handle the KK 6' finish mower fine.

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Robert in W. Mi.

07-28-2002 17:02:07

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Re: Re: Howse vrs. King Kutter - which is a better buy? in reply to Burrhead, 07-28-2002 15:02:55

Hey Burrhead,
I tried this my self two times. Once with a 30 pto hp Deutz (NOT a compact), and a second time with a smaller Kubota.

I cut the same field with a Woods RM59 5' (3) bladed finish mower, and all so with a 5' Bush Hog rotary cutter. The tractor used MORE fuel with the finish mower.

The second time i cut with a Woods RM48 (3) bladed finish mower, and a Woods (the exact model excapes me at the moment) 48" rotary cutter. The finish mower used MORE fuel.

"If" the finish mower uses less power to run, why did both tractors use MORE fuel to run them???

"If" the finish mower uses less power to run, why did the Kubota let out a little smoke as i mowed with the finish mower, but NOT with the rotary cutter??

Because of the above examples, that i did on my own farm, i conclude that a finish mower takes MORE fuel and MORE hp to run, compared to a same width rotary cutter!
Can anyone tell me what i'm missing????? Burrhead????? ???

BTW, around here where it's green and things really grow, you'd be skipping grass like crazy if you tried to wait a month between mowing with a finish mower in a field!! I guess you could go over it twice???
Robert

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Burrhead

07-28-2002 19:23:50

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Re: Re: Re: Howse vrs. King Kutter - which is a better buy? in reply to Robert in W. Mi., 07-28-2002 17:02:07

What I do know is I have the exact same setup the man is talking about with his 28hp riceburning Dorf. I even got the 6' Howse rotary, a 6' Modern rotary, and 6' KK finish mower. His dorf aint gonna pull a 6' rotary and if he decides to pull it around with the pto out of gear he still won't be able to steer the tractor.

It would depend alot on what kind of grass he has but in 18" to 24" bahai, bermuda and johnson grass the KK finish mower does good and you can steer the tractor.

Even up there where you fellers really grow things I would'nt figger it grows much over that a month.

If you'll re-read what was said he's talking about a 6' not a 5' rotary.

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David Berger

08-03-2002 09:54:26

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Howse vrs. King Kutter - which is a better buy? in reply to Burrhead, 07-28-2002 19:23:50

Haha burrhead.you try and mow 48 inches of first cutting grass here in ohio with a finish mower and itll plug up the first 10 seconds youre out ther.use anything smaller than a 7' haybine then youre in trouble.i wouldnt try anything smaller than 35 hp with a 5FT MOWER,not to mention a 6'.just my opinion.

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Robert in W. Mi.

07-28-2002 19:49:35

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Howse vrs. King Kutter - which is a better buy? in reply to Burrhead, 07-28-2002 19:23:50

Hey Burrhead, I'm wondering if you actually read what i asked????? ?? I NEVER disputed you post as to wether he should buy a 6' or 5' mower.

I'm asking you to comment on what takes more power, finish, or rotary. That is all!!

I took the time to explain how i came to the conclusion that a finish mower took more power to run than a rotary. Please read my last post again. Robert

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Burrhead

07-29-2002 11:08:08

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Howse vrs. King Kutter - which is a better buy? in reply to Robert in W. Mi., 07-28-2002 19:49:35

Yeah I read it and re-read it again. You are trying to argue a non-existant equation.

They figure the power requirements based on blade tip speed and length of blade from center. It's somewhere around 19,000 to 20,000 fpm on a 6'KK.

With a finish mower you only have 1 gear box but the torque is divided by the number of spindles.

The KK has a 2' blade length which makes it have a 1' pivot point. Any brand 6' rotary has a 3' pivot point on the blade..

Now the theory gets simple enough even for people who really grow things.

To me it's just simple arithmetic the closer you have the fulcrum to the lift end of a lever the less weight it takes on the power end to move a given object.

If you want to see something that will blow your mind just look on the KK sites or visit a dealer that has them in stock. They have a self propelled 5' model that runs on a 12hp Honda engine so you can mow with a 3 wheeler or the likes pulling it along.
I have seen them in operation at one of their demonstrations and they do a fine job in 2' or so johnson grass.

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Robert in W. Mi.

07-29-2002 13:52:25

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Howse vrs. King Kutter - which is a better buy? in reply to Burrhead, 07-29-2002 11:08:08

Hey Burrhead, Thanks for answering. No argument here.

I guess i made the mistake of "actually" trying two different tractors and four different cutters in the same field to see for my self!!

Now, i should have known that i could have got the answer, and saved a lot of time by sitting in my over stuffed chair with my calulator in hand!! :)

Has anyone else here besides me, ever "actually" tried this for them selves????? Robert

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Robert in W. Mi.

07-28-2002 17:00:48

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Re: Re: Howse vrs. King Kutter - which is a better buy? in reply to Burrhead, 07-28-2002 15:02:55

Hey Burrhead,
I tried this my self two times. Once with a 30 pto hp Deutz (NOT a compact), and a second time with a smaller Kubota.

I cut the same field with a Woods RM59 5' (3) bladed finish mower, and all so with a 5' Bush Hog rotary cutter. The tractor used MORE fuel with the finish mower.

The second time i cut with a Woods RM48 (3) bladed finish mower, and a Woods (the exact model excapes me at the moment) 48" rotary cutter. The finish mower used MORE fuel.

"If" the finish mower uses less power to run, why did both tractors use MORE fuel to run them???

"If" the finish mower uses less power to run, why did the Kubota let out a little smoke as i mowed with the finish mower, but NOT with the rotary cutter??

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Jerry D in NC

07-26-2002 18:48:29

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Re: Howse vrs. King Kutter - which is a better buy? in reply to John Ryan, 07-25-2002 09:14:40

I have done this comparison before and the King Kutter is the best built of the two. Howse uses alot of stamped sheet metal where KK uses heavy steel. The frame of the KK appears heavier to me. KK also makes 5 1/2 foot cutter as well as the 60 and 72 inch models. You probably have HP enough to pull the 72 inch cutter but you will definitely run a gear slower in heavy stuff if not 2 gears slower. That might not be worth the extra width. Your problem is that you are looking at a mower that weighs 200 lbs more than the 60" Both web sites list the 60" at around 505 for the 500 and KK at 525 for the lightest 60 ". Both show the 72 " cutters to be 700+ pounds. That weight is hanging 3 feet behind your lift arms and the front of that 1920 is going to be in the air more than on the ground. I run a 72" cutter on my Ford 2000 which I know is heavier than the 1920 and it gets light sometimes. I don't use it on hills. I have a 60" that I picked up cheap beat up bad that I use in fields that I don't know and rough ground.

If you are looking for the extra width and mowing 20 acres I can see why, have you considered possibly a 6 ft finishing mower. They are lighter and can not be used like a bush hog to cut small trees and such but if it is just grass on relatively smooth ground then they are lighter and require less HP to run. Or maybe a flail mower, they are a little lighter and definitely closer so the weight does not affect you as much and will cut fairly tall grass. Now again we are not talking about it being able to cut down trees.

Just some thoughts on alternatives

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Robert in W. Mi.

07-27-2002 16:51:14

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Re: Re: Howse vrs. King Kutter - which is a better buy? in reply to Jerry D in NC, 07-26-2002 18:48:29

A (3) spindle finish mower takes MORE power to run, not less when compared to a single spindle rotary cutter!! A rear discharge finish mower uses less than side discharge though, and does a better job of mowing. Robert

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Tom-Pa

07-26-2002 11:39:58

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Re: Howse vrs. King Kutter - which is a better buy? in reply to John Ryan, 07-25-2002 09:14:40

I have a 5 ft KK and am happy with it. the only problem I had is 2 bolts came loose on the gear box base...there is a guard kit you can get for the openings. The KK is a better buy as the sides are actual 'I' beam and the Howse is sheetmetal with a foot welded on..The I beams on my KK have taken a beating and nothing has ever come thru them..rocks, wood, metal, what have you...I would get another one in a heartbeat if I had to...
Definately dont get anything wider than a 5 footer for your tractor. on slopes it could get kinda hairy....
good luck
Tom-Pa

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Bus Driver

07-26-2002 05:31:38

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Re: Howse vrs. King Kutter - which is a better buy? in reply to John Ryan, 07-25-2002 09:14:40

Have owned both Howse and King Kutter. Everything about Howse is non-standard, parts available only from their dealers. King Kutter is the better of the 2. 6' mower is too much for your tractor. Agreed that other brands are better than these. But since 1978, I have spent less money total on all the cheapo mowers I bought than I would have paid in 1978 for just one of the big name items. For my use, these low-cost brands have served me well. For regular, heavy use, get the better quality.

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John Ryan

07-26-2002 06:10:30

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Re: Re: Howse vrs. King Kutter - which is a better buy? in reply to Bus Driver, 07-26-2002 05:31:38

Everyone's comments have been greatly appreciated. I realize now I should have put in what I wanted to use the rotary cutter for....which is cutting 20 acres of grass once a month or so. My local Ford Tractor Dealer recommended a 6' light duty rotary cutter for my model 1920 w/ 28.5 hp PTO for cutting grass since the tractor is 5' 8" wide. In light of this, here are my 3 choices in my price range. What does everyone suggest... although at this point I think I know what the answeer is:

- 5' John Deere model 513 light duty w/ slip clutch & chain guards, 30 hp gear box, 1/8" - 3/64" steel deck, $850 *Of course this 5 footer won't be as wide as the tractor.

- 6' King Kutter light duty w/ shear pin, no chain guards, 40 hp gear box, 10 gage steel deck, $695 or ($1,015 w/ chain guards)

- 6' Howse light duty w/ shear pin, chain guards, 50 hp gear box, 12 gage steel deck, $651 or ($812 w/ chain guards)

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steve

08-13-2002 10:36:46

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Re: Re: Re: Howse vrs. King Kutter - which is a better buy? in reply to John Ryan, 07-26-2002 06:10:30

I've mowed twenty acres with two different tractors. one was a NH 33 with a woods 5ft and I used a kubota with a 5 ft kodiak . Both tractors are approximately 28 pto. The land is flat and the first time I cut it the growth was 3 yrs old. I was able to make great ground speed with good mowing qaulity. A wider mower would probably slow me down. I mowed the land the next year and averaged the same time about 14 hours. not including, flat tires, and running out of fuel. If you want to keep it cut and the land is clean, my father in law has used a gang mower from a golf course, now The area has to be a clean and relatively smooth but it's about 12 foot wide and he pulls it with a ford 9N. you just can't let the grass get too tall.

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Robert in W. Mi.

07-26-2002 16:38:59

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Re: Re: Re: Howse vrs. King Kutter - which is a better buy? in reply to John Ryan, 07-26-2002 06:10:30

That's a tough decision, First of all, i'd NOT get the JD cutter because it's too light duty. The KK is plenty heavy duty enough, but personally i wouldn't want a cutter that doesn't have the slip clutch. Yes, i read below about the guy telling you he's seen them rusted, but that's "operator error!!" Every spring you loosen the nuts on the slip clutch springs, and slip the clutch just enough to see it slip. Then you reajust the spring tension. That's the proper way to have protection for any tractor/slip clutch arangement! Now, tell me what will happen to your PTO when you hit a big rock, or a stump with 40 or 50 HP gear box cutter and a shear pin "rated for" a 40 or 50 HP tractor????? ? I all so feel a 6' cutter is too big for your 28hp tractor, and remember compact tractors just aren't built heavy enough to take a huge amount of abuse. Now, back to your origional question, I'd buy one of the high priced cutters if it was me, (i like Woods brand) but "if" i had your choise, i would get the KK, and not bring it home untill the dealer put a slip clutch on it, even at the extra $$ it will cost for the clutch!! Robert

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hay

07-26-2002 06:31:38

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Re: Re: Re: Howse vrs. King Kutter - which is a better buy? in reply to John Ryan, 07-26-2002 06:10:30

can you adjust your rims/tires on the rear to make it fit a 5 ft.? i know on MOST modern compact tractors the rears are adjustable. even a light duty 6 ft. is gonna be a load for a 28 pto hp tractor and if you get into a heavy area it could cause a stall out on the tractor. be safe!

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glenshoe

07-25-2002 20:11:03

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Re: Howse vrs. King Kutter - which is a better buy? in reply to John Ryan, 07-25-2002 09:14:40

I have to agree that 6 foot is too big for your tractor. I have a 6' King Kutter which I run behind my JD 1020 (35-38 hp) and in heavy going it's all it wants. I'm very happy with the KK - it's much beefier than the Howse (which I wouldn't touch) but of course it's not in the same league with the big brand names like JD or Bush Hog. The KK cuts very smoothly and has (accidentally) been subjected to some very heavy shocks. I've sheared several shear pins (which I chose in lieu of the drive line clutch) but it's no big deal to replace them and I feel much more comfortable with that type of protection. I've seen a number of clutches rusted up on rotary brush cutters thus affording no protection at all which makes me shudder to think of the shock to the drivetrain of the tractor when you hit something. Glenn

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glenshoe

07-25-2002 20:07:39

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Re: Howse vrs. King Kutter - which is a better buy? in reply to John Ryan, 07-25-2002 09:14:40

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Big Dave

07-25-2002 18:34:41

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Re: Howse vrs. King Kutter - which is a better buy? in reply to John Ryan, 07-25-2002 09:14:40

RUN,DONT WALK AWAY FROM THE HOWSE.IF THE KING CUTTER IS YOUR ONLY OTHER CHOICE GO WITH A LIGHT
DUTY 5'. GEAR BOX HORSEPOWER IS THE MAX RATED HP
FOR THAT CUTTER.REMEMBER YOU HAVE A 28.5 HP TRACTOR AND LIGHT DUTY CUTTER NOT A BULLDOZER

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dangitboy

07-25-2002 17:36:54

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Re: Howse vrs. King Kutter - which is a better buy? in reply to John Ryan, 07-25-2002 09:14:40

there both JUNK!!!!! !!!!! !!!

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Kermit in SW MO

07-25-2002 14:57:13

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Re: Howse vrs. King Kutter - which is a better buy? in reply to John Ryan, 07-25-2002 09:14:40

I agree that a 5 ft model would be the max for your tractor. You may even want to consider a 4 ft model if you're going to be cutting very heavy brush. I can't tell you anything about King Cutter although I've heard good things about them. I used to own a Howse brand brush hog, and it was junk. It wasn't balanced well and had a tendancy to vibrate when you got it above a certain PTO speed. I traded it off on a John Deere and have been very happy with it. I got safety chains and a slip clutch which I highly recommend to anyone. They cost a little more, but IMHO they are worth it.

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WILL

07-27-2002 21:03:13

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Re: Re: Howse vrs. King Kutter - which is a better buy? in reply to Kermit in SW MO, 07-25-2002 14:57:13

HOWES AND KING CUTTER ARE JUNK BUY YOU MOWER FROM EQUIPMENT DEALER THAT HAS PARTS FOR IT NOT JUST BLADES BUT PARTS SOMETHING THE COUNTY ARE STATE HWY DEPT USES!

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Paul

07-25-2002 11:54:47

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Re: Howse vrs. King Kutter - which is a better buy? in reply to John Ryan, 07-25-2002 09:14:40

Can't say which is better.

I've been running a 6' brushcutter behind my 1910 for 14 years. Depending on how heavy the material being cut is I run 2/3, or 2/2 for the gearing. For heavy brush, I might run 1/3 just so I don't get any surprises.

I did have to put some weights on the front (about 150 lbs) for balance.

Hope this helps.

paul

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hay

07-25-2002 11:08:36

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Re: Howse vrs. King Kutter - which is a better buy? in reply to John Ryan, 07-25-2002 09:14:40

like the others said, i would go with a 5 ft. cutter. i believe you would have to be over 35 hp to comfortably use a 6 ft. cutter. be safe!

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5' hog max

07-25-2002 09:42:40

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Re: Howse vrs. King Kutter - which is a better buy? in reply to John Ryan, 07-25-2002 09:14:40

That big as I would put behind that HP

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Tommy D.

07-25-2002 09:30:37

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Re: Howse vrs. King Kutter - which is a better buy? in reply to John Ryan, 07-25-2002 09:14:40

Not sure about the brands you mention, but a 6-footer *might* be a little much for that little Ford. I have an early model 4000 (approx. 40 hp), and my father-in-law's 6' Land Pride is a little big for it. Have to steer with the brake on any incline at all, and bogs down pretty quick in anything over about knee high.

Might rent a 6 footer to be sure your tractor will handle it OK before you lay down the $.

Just a suggestion.
Tommy D.

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