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Hay Know How

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Tom 8N396936

01-05-2003 05:40:13




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Just bought a 25 acres farm that has about 15 acres in hay. What exactly do I need to harvest (bale) hay? I hear many terms like cutditioner, haybine, etc and I am just not sure what all these are? I know it must be cut then windrowed then baled. What could be the most economical solution for me to produce square bales? Basically, what do all these terms mean and what would you suggest? I am currently running an 8N but can access my brothers larger Case.
Thanks for any insight
Tom

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James

01-06-2003 18:57:20




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 Re: Re: Hay Know How in reply to Ironpeddler, 01-05-2003 21:37:30  
Have you ever made a post without trying to sell something? The classified advertisements are on the left.



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Big Allis

01-05-2003 18:09:44




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 Re: Hay Know How in reply to Tom 8N396936, 01-05-2003 05:40:13  
All u need is yer 8n and a sickle mower hat rake and a baler yer 8 n will do the job thy have for years u dnt need fancy equipmnt to do the job unless u wanna spend lot of money but thts not needed u can find good stuff at sales plus using old iron is fun lol and if u cant have fun doin something u shldnt be doing it. Big Allis



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Big Allis

01-05-2003 18:07:51




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 Re: Hay Know How in reply to Tom 8N396936, 01-05-2003 05:40:13  
All u need is yer 8n and a sickle mower hat rake and a baler yer 8 n will do the job thy have for years u dnt need fancy equipmnt to do the job unless u wanna spend lot of money but thts not needed u can find good stuff at sales plus using old iron is fun lol and if u cant have fun doin something u shldnt be doing it. BigALLIS



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Big Allis

01-05-2003 18:07:02




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 Re: Hay Know How in reply to Tom 8N396936, 01-05-2003 05:40:13  
All u need is yer 8n and a sickle mower hat rake and a baler yer 8 n will do the job thy have for years u dnt need fancy equipmnt to do the job unless u wanna spend lot of money but thts not needed u can find good stuff at sales plus using old iron is fun lol and if u cant have fun doin something u shldnt be doing it. BigALLIS



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Big Allis

01-05-2003 18:05:01




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 Re: Hay Know How in reply to Tom 8N396936, 01-05-2003 05:40:13  
All u need is yer 8n and a sickle mower hat rake and a baler yer 8 n will do the job thy have for years u dnt need fancy equipmnt to do the job unless u wanna spend lot of money but thts not needed u can find good stuff at sales plus using old iron is fun lol and if u cant have fun doin something u shldnt be doing it. BigALLIS



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Big Allis

01-05-2003 18:04:25




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 Re: Hay Know How in reply to Tom 8N396936, 01-05-2003 05:40:13  
All u need is yer 8n and a sickle mower hat rake and a baler yer 8 n will do the job thy have for years u dnt need fancy equipmnt to do the job unless u wanna spend lot of money but thts not needed u can find good stuff at sales plus using old iron is fun lol and if u cant have fun doin something u shldnt be doing it. BigALLIS



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Big Allis

01-05-2003 18:03:14




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 Re: Hay Know How in reply to Tom 8N396936, 01-05-2003 05:40:13  
All u need is yer 8n and a sickle mower hat rake and a baler yer 8 n will do the job thy have for years u dnt need fancy equipmnt to do the job unless u wanna spend lot of money but thts not needed u can find good stuff at sales plus using old iron is fun lol and if u cant have fun doin something u shldnt be doing it. BigALLIS



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Rick

01-05-2003 15:42:55




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 Re: Hay Know How in reply to Tom 8N396936, 01-05-2003 05:40:13  
Find somebody local do it first time. I specialize in hay so let me know be further help.Here is some cheap useable machinery for sale that I know of 488 New Holland Mow/conditioner $1950 good useable,JD hay rake $200.00 or New Holland 56 rake $950.00 and a solid IH 37 square baler,$1200.00 baled last summer. Thats cheap way I have connection with. Have a very nice JD 327 baler for sale also. For what you are doing I would use bale basket wagons instead of flat racks or kicker baler attachments,they work slick.

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Rick

01-05-2003 15:39:41




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 Re: Hay Know How in reply to Tom 8N396936, 01-05-2003 05:40:13  
Find somebody local do it first time. I specialize in hay so let me know be further help.Here is some cheap useable machinery for sale that I know of 488 New Holland Mow/conditioner $1950 good useable,JD hay rake $200.00 or New Holland 56 rake $950.00 and a solid IH 37 square baler,$1200.00 baled last summer. Thats cheap way I have connection with. Have a very nice JD 327 baler for sale also. For what you are doing I would use bale basket wagons instead of flat racks or kicker baler attachments,they work slick.

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Rick

01-05-2003 15:38:44




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 Re: Hay Know How in reply to Tom 8N396936, 01-05-2003 05:40:13  
Find somebody local do it first time. I specialize in hay so let me know be further help.Here is some cheap useable machinery for sale that I know of 488 New Holland Mow/conditioner $1950 good useable,JD hay rake $200.00 or New Holland 56 rake $950.00 and a solid IH 37 square baler,$1200.00 baled last summer. Thats cheap way I have connection with. Have a very nice JD 327 baler for sale also. For what you are doing I would use bale basket wagons instead of flat racks or kicker baler attachments,they work slick.

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Kelly C

01-05-2003 14:38:26




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 Re: Hay Know How in reply to Tom 8N396936, 01-05-2003 05:40:13  
Here is what I will be using for small amout of haying.
Farmall H $1500 I might have just a little more in it. :-)
New Holland 68 baler. $200 I am rebuilding this one.
JD#5 mower. $25 I might end up with anoth $50 or so in it.

Minnesota Side delevery rake. $250

16' hay rack. $150 + $50 in wood.

Oh and I splurged for a M&W clutch for my H. $300



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Jim in Michigan

01-05-2003 17:22:28




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 Re: Re: Hay Know How in reply to Kelly C, 01-05-2003 14:38:26  
Sounds like you have everything you need KellyC E mail me if you have any questions,,,Jim



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Jim in Michigan

01-05-2003 13:57:13




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 Re: Re: Hay Know How in reply to Ironpeddler, 01-05-2003 12:16:15  
exactly what skill would he need to run a sickle mower? I have used one for years and am as unskilled as they come,,you drive around the feild cutting the hay,,if somethin is in the way like a anthill then raise the sickle...I use a old JD semi Mounted sickle on my H and then I have a old side delivery rake and a old NH 68 hayliner baler,,,he is only cutting 25 acres, for 1800 bucks you can buy all the equipment I mentioned plus the gas to make your hay...Start small and then work up if you want, I make hay on more then 100 acres of land and we put up close to 5000 bales this year using all old and cheap equipment, we did use a haybine this year, but its a old Case 555 and it cost 200.00 ...My opinion,,,Jim

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Kelly C

01-05-2003 14:26:10




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 Re: Re: Re: Hay Know How in reply to Jim in Michigan, 01-05-2003 13:57:13  
I like your thinkin Jim.



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Jim in Michigan

01-05-2003 13:52:49




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 Re: Re: Hay Know How in reply to Ironpeddler, 01-05-2003 12:16:15  
exactly what skill would he need to run a sickle mower? I have used one for years and am as unskilled as they come,,you drive around the feild cutting the hay,,if somethin is in the way like a anthill then raise the sickle...I use a old JD semi Mounted sickle on my H and then I have a old side delivery rake and a old NH 68 hayliner baler,,,he is only cutting 25 acres, for 1800 bucks you can buy all the equipment I mentioned plus the gas to make your hay...Start small and then work up if you want, I make hay on more then 100 acres of land and we put up close to 5000 bales this year using all old and cheap equipment, we did use a haybine this year, but its a old Case 555 and it cost 200.00 ...My opinion,,,Jim

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jim

01-05-2003 12:26:05




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 Re: Re: Hay Know How in reply to Ironpeddler, 01-05-2003 12:16:15  
Ironpeddler- What the heck is a drum mower?
How do they work and do you have more detailed pictures of these mowers? I have a Mott mower,a bush hog and a finishing mower but have never seen these drum mowers.



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Roy in UK

01-05-2003 13:28:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Hay Know How in reply to jim, 01-05-2003 12:26:05  
Hey I thought you Americans were ahead of the game. We used drum mowers over here in the 1970's! ;) Actually the "in" mowers over here seem to be disc mowers ( take less power than drum mowers and better in laid crops)



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jim

01-05-2003 12:25:39




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 Re: Re: Hay Know How in reply to Ironpeddler, 01-05-2003 12:16:15  
Ironpeddler- What the heck is a drum mower?
How do they work and do you have more detailed pictures of these mowers? I have a Mott mower,a bush hog and a finishing mower but have never seen these drum mowers.



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pj

01-05-2003 17:46:23




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 Re: Re: Re: Hay Know How in reply to jim, 01-05-2003 12:25:39  
I am with Jim what the heck is a drum mower.? how heavy,width of cut,and so on thanks



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Okla/Bill

01-05-2003 11:10:22




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 Re: Hay Know How in reply to Tom 8N396936, 01-05-2003 05:40:13  

Ill tell ya what. I put up hay with a 1934 CC Case tractor, 37 hp. I use it with a #27 IHC simi mount Sickle Mower in the 50s. I also am getting a pull type New Idea Sickle mower in operation for my other tractor a 1937 IHC F-30 Farmall which has no hydrolics as neither does the case, but it has a gear lift. I rake with a steel wheeled J D side rake that my dad gave me that I had to weld teeth ona gear to be able to use it and ive used it for near 20 yrs. I also have a Case steel wheeled rake when the JD gives out, if it evert does. Finally I have a 1960 Case engine bailer. I put up around 4 acres a year. If you can find a good 3 pt sickle mower, and a hump back 2 wheel side rake, and a good light engine bailer, and if yer Ford will hold together, it can use these impliments and should be able to do your hay pretty easy. The engine on a bailer will allow you to slow down or stop if you get into a thick bunch of hay and yet the bailer will still be going top speed. It uses more gas, but not near the money you would spend to have a tractor with live power. Just my wooden nickles worth

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Gary in Tx

01-05-2003 10:46:19




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 Re: Hay Know How in reply to Tom 8N396936, 01-05-2003 05:40:13  
Along with what some of the others have said, an 8N is really going to be too small to really get much done and without live pto, you will find it a real pain. The most I would try to do with an 8N would be pulling a rake or wagon.
I do custom hay baling here in North Central Texas and my smallest tractor is a 135 Massey, it has the live pto, hydraulics, and power enough to handle my 346 wire tie square baler, a 9' haybine and my rakes and rake hitch. In a pinch it will pick up and carry round bales as well but its not really good on a tractor that small.

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lc

01-05-2003 19:47:05




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 Re: Re: Hay Know How in reply to Gary in Tx , 01-05-2003 10:46:19  
Well, I did all 80 tons of my hay this year with a 9n. Well, almost all of it. Had a steep couple hills to do and borrowed a MM U for about 400 bales. I use an old Case swather and a Sitrex wheel rake and Case 130 engine baler. There is NO reason you can't get your 15 acres baled real easy with a 8n. Sure we could do it faster, less stress and spend a WHOLE lot more money but it works. Period.



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Gary in Tx

01-06-2003 07:57:26




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 Re: Re: Re: Hay Know How in reply to lc, 01-05-2003 19:47:05  
Well, excuse me! I meant no bad feelings toward the N's by any means what so ever. Sure you can do it with them and I'm sure it may even be fun at times. I suppose I should have made my point a little clearer about doing it for your own use or if you doing this as a business. I'm glad to hear you have good luck with the 9N doing what you did and my hats off to ya. Your really not going to be spending a whole lot more money in doing it with a little more updated tractor though. I have never operated a baler iwth its own engine so I can't speak with any experience on it but it seems like it would be a royal pain in the backside compared to a pto drive baler. Another engine to keep up, the belts adn all. Just an opinion and not meant to throw any stones now so don't take that the wrong way.
I do honestly admire your work with the 9N and wish you much luck in the future doing the same. Have a super day and a super new year!!!

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lc

01-06-2003 20:08:33




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Hay Know How in reply to Gary in Tx, 01-06-2003 07:57:26  
Sorry Gary. Didn't realize I came across so strong. Wasn't meaning to raise your neck hairs, honestly. Just wanted to let the fella know my side of it and went a bit strong. Loren.



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Gary in TX

01-06-2003 20:33:20




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hay Know How in reply to lc, 01-06-2003 20:08:33  
Hey man its cool. I think I may have just been to tired to answer emails or read posts this morning after getting off work last night. Main thing is we let him know it can be done but if possible at some point a live pto and a little bit bigger tractor would make things go easier. It don't have to be a right away upgrade, just a little at a time is cool. I apologise myself if I got on my soapbox. Hey its a disscussion forum, were disscussing! Holler at me some time.
Gary

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lc

01-07-2003 19:04:23




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hay Know How in reply to Gary in TX, 01-06-2003 20:33:20  
You got it. Happy haying.



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Gary in TX

01-06-2003 20:30:45




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hay Know How in reply to lc, 01-06-2003 20:08:33  
Hey man its cool. I think I may have just been to tired to answer emails or read posts this morning after getting off work last night. Main thing is we let him know it can be done but if possible at some point a live pto and a little bit bigger tractor would make things go easier. It don't have to be a right away upgrade, just a little at a time is cool. I apologise myself if I got on my soapbox. Hey its a disscussion forum, were disscussing! Holler at me some time.
Gary

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Gary in TX

01-06-2003 20:29:56




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hay Know How in reply to lc, 01-06-2003 20:08:33  
Hey man its cool. I think I may have just been to tired to answer emails or read posts this morning after getting off work last night. Main thing is we let him know it can be done but if possible at some point a live pto and a little bit bigger tractor would make things go easier. It don't have to be a right away upgrade, just a little at a time is cool. I apologise myself if I got on my soapbox. Hey its a disscussion forum, were disscussing! Holler at me some time.
Gary

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Gary in TX

01-06-2003 20:26:21




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hay Know How in reply to lc, 01-06-2003 20:08:33  
Hey man its cool. I think I may have just been to tired to answer emails or read posts this morning after getting off work last night. Main thing is we let him know it can be done but if possible at some point a live pto and a little bit bigger tractor would make things go easier. It don't have to be a right away upgrade, just a little at a time is cool. I apologise myself if I got on my soapbox. Hey its a disscussion forum, were disscussing! Holler at me some time.
Gary

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Gary in Tx

01-06-2003 07:57:23




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 Re: Re: Re: Hay Know How in reply to lc, 01-05-2003 19:47:05  
Well, excuse me! I meant no bad feelings toward the N's by any means what so ever. Sure you can do it with them and I'm sure it may even be fun at times. I suppose I should have made my point a little clearer about doing it for your own use or if you doing this as a business. I'm glad to hear you have good luck with the 9N doing what you did and my hats off to ya. Your really not going to be spending a whole lot more money in doing it with a little more updated tractor though. I have never operated a baler iwth its own engine so I can't speak with any experience on it but it seems like it would be a royal pain in the backside compared to a pto drive baler. Another engine to keep up, the belts adn all. Just an opinion and not meant to throw any stones now so don't take that the wrong way.
I do honestly admire your work with the 9N and wish you much luck in the future doing the same. Have a super day and a super new year!!!

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Gary in Tx

01-06-2003 07:55:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Hay Know How in reply to lc, 01-05-2003 19:47:05  
Well, excuse me! I meant no bad feelings toward the N's by any means what so ever. Sure you can do it with them and I'm sure it may even be fun at times. I suppose I should have made my point a little clearer about doing it for your own use or if you doing this as a business. I'm glad to hear you have good luck with the 9N doing what you did and my hats off to ya. Your really not going to be spending a whole lot more money in doing it with a little more updated tractor though. I have never operated a baler iwth its own engine so I can't speak with any experience on it but it seems like it would be a royal pain in the backside compared to a pto drive baler. Another engine to keep up, the belts adn all. Just an opinion and not meant to throw any stones now so don't take that the wrong way.
I do honestly admire your work with the 9N and wish you much luck in the future doing the same. Have a super day and a super new year!!!

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kydavid

01-05-2003 09:57:18




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 Re: Hay Know How in reply to Tom 8N396936, 01-05-2003 05:40:13  
Good advice from Mike, get somebody to do it a year or two and look at their stuff, what they do, and how it works.

Next (not trying to start a war here, just my opinion) you need to get a tractor with live (or preferably independent) PTO and hydraulic remotes plus a little more hp if you plan to do 15 acres of hay. Didn't say where you lived (influences hay yields) but for unfertilized or lightly fertilized grass hays a sickle mower should be ok. Conditioners are nice, but I've almost quit using them in favor of the speed and low down time on a disc mower/tedder combination. Need a decent rake and baler (if you can hire the baling might be best, balers are tempramental beasts). Need some flat wagons to put the hay on. I'd use 16' with the 8N, if you get a bigger tractor go 18's or 20's.

Figure: $3000-4500 will get you a decent Long or Case/David Brown diesel tractor in the 50-52 hp range. $300 for a decent Ford 501 sickle mower, $500 for a decent NI rake. Balers will run at least $500-$1000 for a decent used one $2500 for a good one, any less and you should expect to spend some time as a baler mechanic. A good used haybine could replace the sickle mower for about 1500. Price may vary a lot in your area, this is based on central KY. If you are in decent driving distence National Farm Machinery Show is in Louisville in mid Feb. Can see a lot of stuff under one roof. I'll be there on Feb 14th, if you are interested can pint out some stuff and some differences. Curse you can spend a bunch more. Figure I've got $30-40K tied up in my hay equip plus another $30-40K in tractors but doing a lot more than 15 acres. Didn't start out this way though, started out with $6000 worth of tractors and equip plus a rented round and square baler.

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Michael Soldan

01-05-2003 07:11:51




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 Re: Hay Know How in reply to Tom 8N396936, 01-05-2003 05:40:13  
Tom, I have small acerage of hay but have seeded down more land and am in this current situation. I purchased a sickle mower which I find easy to maintain and it has served me well but I am considering a used cutditioner of some kind as a time saver only. Whether you call it haybine or cutditioner it is the same beast, it cuts the hay and squeezes it through rollers so it will dry and cure quicker.I found an old New Idea hay rake and the owner basically told me to take it. I had to put several new tines on it and a new tire, I painted it its original colours and it looks and works great. I use a Massey#10 baler that my son in law bought for $ 100...so I don't have much tied up in hay equipment yet we get the job done. You might consider getting someone to bale for you ,even large rounds wouldn't be that expensive but you need a loader tractor and bale spike to move them around. You didn't say but will this be hay for sale or for your owm use feeding?I think an 8n tractor is too light for a baler but not to say you couldn't try..people have baled with Farmall H's and Farmall C's but a tractor with live PTO makes baling a lot easier. For the first year or so you might consider hiring someone to take the hay off and you can gain a lot of experience by watching and helping. You could also get some one to take it off on shares ..they get half the hay for their work and you keep half..before getting a whole lot of money into equipment. Don't get in a hurry, shop around for used equipment and don't wait until haying season because everyone is in a bust then and prices usually go up. Good luck with your haying..... Mike in Exeter Ontario

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Tim(nj)

01-05-2003 18:18:09




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 Re: Re: Hay Know How in reply to Michael Soldan, 01-05-2003 07:11:51  
A Haybine (New Holland trademark) has a sickle and rollers. Other manufacturers call them various things, but mower/conditioner is most common. A Cut/ditioner (New Idea trademark) and a Rotary Scythe (Mathews Company tradmark) are flail-type machines that cut and condition the hay with the same knife rotor. Both of these flail machines were popular where I live for tough hay cutting until the disc mower/conditioners (Discbine to New Holland) came out.

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Tim(nj)

01-06-2003 16:40:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Hay Know How in reply to Ironpeddler, 01-05-2003 21:24:41  
Nobody mows hay without conditioning here. Wouldn't be able to sell 1 of them in my part of New Jersey, no matter how well they cut. Didn't MF sell a drum-type machine with a conditioner back in the '80s, the 166 was it? I thought that thing had promise, but I guess Massey's financial problems killed it before it had the chance to compete with the disc machines.



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TomH

01-05-2003 06:53:28




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 Re: Hay Know How in reply to Tom 8N396936, 01-05-2003 05:40:13  
Here's a good place to start. A lot depends on where you are, how much labor you have available, and what you plan to do with the hay.



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