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Drainage tile question

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Pat

02-15-2003 10:25:37




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Not sure where to post this question, but hopefully someone here can help.

I would like to install about 4 acres worth of drainage tile so I could plant sweet corn a lit
tle sooner than usual, and was wondering what I should look for when buying tile. The length of the ditches for the tile would be about 300-400 ft long, some a little shorter. The soil is a sandy/loam/clay texture.

How far apart should they be spaced? How deep?
What diameter?
Put Gravel Around the pipe?
Are there different grades or qualities to look for?

Any help or advise would be greatly appriciated!

Thanks, Pat

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Cliff Neubauer

02-18-2003 09:33:03




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 Re: Drainage tile question in reply to Pat, 02-15-2003 10:25:37  
We have had quite a bit of tile put in the last few years, most of it 4" on 40' centers but in an application like yours where you have a high dollar crop it might pay to go a little closer. Extra tile won't hurt in a dry year and will help in a wet year. We prefer to have our tile plowed in as apposed to trenched because of our soil types and it is alot cheaper. Around here it costs about 50-55 cents/ft for 4" tile plowed in and about double that to have it trenched and on 40' spacings it will take just over 1,000ft/acre. We've found that tile is one of the best investments we can make and we only have two types of ground here; ground that has been tiled and ground that needs tile, even if it has some slope to it.

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pat

02-19-2003 08:15:11




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 Re: Re: Drainage tile question in reply to Cliff Neubauer, 02-18-2003 09:33:03  
Cliff,
Thanks for the Info!!
Does the price you listed include the pipe or is that for the labor only? What kind of crop do you grow, and what is your soil type?



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Dale from Indiana

02-17-2003 17:35:21




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 Re: Drainage tile question in reply to Pat, 02-15-2003 10:25:37  
Contact your local Soil and Water Conservation District or maybe talk to a local Natural Resources Conservation Services (NRCS). They are in the same office and every county has one. They have soil surveys for your county and it has maps listing your soil types with all kinds of recomendations, and all this is free.



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tim[in]

02-16-2003 02:00:46




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 Re: Drainage tile question in reply to Pat, 02-15-2003 10:25:37  
some of the guys around now are using 3" tile for the laterals. i wondered about the 2" myself but thought i was the only one who had the idea! lol the main thing is the maintaining the grade when putting it in and make sure it is deep enough so you dont hit it when subsoiling or plowing. the use of gravel around the tile is called a 'french drain' use it in an especially wet area or one that you want to drain faster.

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paul

02-16-2003 08:06:38




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 Re: Re: Drainage tile question in reply to tim[in], 02-16-2003 02:00:46  
Clay soils present some interesting issues too, where gavel can help. Also, the tile bullet Burhead talks about - soil type makes a BIG difference on that! Perhaps some local people will have better advise, per local soils, than we all can provide.

Where I live, rolling hills, so pattern tiling is not done. Out on the level, they usually run 80' apart here in big farming country, with 4 or 6". I don't think any of my experience applies to 5 acres of level truck farm!

--->Paul

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Burrhead

02-15-2003 21:00:21




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 Re: Drainage tile question in reply to Pat, 02-15-2003 10:25:37  
Several years ago the school boys in Nebraska built a *tile bullet* and it tested to work as well as tile.

They would weld a chain onto the point of a 6" sharpened to a point steel bar. Then attach the chain to a subsoiler shank.

You either have to dig holes or start the bullet from a ditch bank and plow the field with the bullet running about 18" underground.

There was no tile or pipe installed behind the bullet, just the run of the bullet for drainage.

According to the U of Neb report the bullet fields drained as well as the tiled fields and the channel lasted for 5 years or so.

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Leroy

02-18-2003 16:24:18




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 Re: Re: Drainage tile question in reply to Burrhead, 02-15-2003 21:00:21  
John Deere back in the 30's & 40's Called it a mole back of there subsoilers, bigger model they did not make a tractor with enough horsepower to pull had to go with the bigger crawlers.

3" drain till was used untill found out cloged with silt in a couple of years, 80 year ago, 4" became the norm, wast your money with anything smaller, will be replacing in short time



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Hugh MacKay

02-18-2003 15:00:21




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 Re: Re: Drainage tile question in reply to Burrhead, 02-15-2003 21:00:21  
A neighbour has one of these devices, manuel with it calls it the bottle. It does look like a quart beer bottle (gosh I supose most guys on here don't know what a quart beer bottle looks like.) This one is about 50 years old and came from Oliver or Cockshutt.



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Peter

02-17-2003 15:59:16




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 Re: Re: Drainage tile question in reply to Burrhead, 02-15-2003 21:00:21  
John Deere sold a product like that years ago, I think they called it a mole. It is shown in one of their books that was published in the 40s. I would like to try it myself but don't know if it is still possible to buy them.



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Burrhead

02-17-2003 19:02:58




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 Re: Re: Re: Drainage tile question in reply to Peter, 02-17-2003 15:59:16  
I don't recall where I have the article but I'll look and see if I can find it in my junk stash in a day or 2.

I do remember for sure they used a 6" solid bar sharpened to a point and it was 3' long.

They attached it to a nekked subsoiler shank with and 18" peice of chain and drilled it at 18 to 24" depth.



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JD

02-15-2003 20:57:16




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 Re: Drainage tile question in reply to Pat, 02-15-2003 10:25:37  

4 inch perforated black plastic pipe (slits on all sides,flexible)is what most folks use. There are contractors out there that install it with a plow. ADS (Advanced Drainage Systems) has a web site with info. Tiles are ancient history.
JD



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Hugh MacKay

02-15-2003 17:59:35




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 Re: Drainage tile question in reply to Pat, 02-15-2003 10:25:37  
There has been some expermental work done on using a 2" pipe on 15 and 20 foot centers. I don't know the results of the research but one of the farmers involved likes the results. I understand they did about 5 acres on 6-7 different farms with different soil type. Drainage pipe should be on average 30" deep.

I personally have some 4" pipe on 30 foot centers, that I grew vegetables on. After a rain or series of wet days, as the field dried it did so in strips, spreading out from pipe. My farmer friend with the 2" pipe on 20 foot centers tells me that field dries more uniformly. I understand that as far as pipe is concerned 2" on 15 foot centers is actually less expensive than 4" on 30 foot centers. The installation on 2" being more expensive. My friend tells me that to date 2" is going over well with vegetable and special crops like flowers, etc. I would expect that value of crop along with smaller acreage is driving force on smaller pipe.

I cant help you grade of pipe, probably 15 years since I bought it. If your close to a farm drainage contractor or store, I would try there as opposed to hardware stores.

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Pat

02-15-2003 20:08:21




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 Re: Re: Drainage tile question in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-15-2003 17:59:35  
Where is a good source for tile, and what does it typically run per foot?? Especially the 2", I cannot find any on the 'net.

Here in my part of WV, we dont have much Agriculture, so I will most likely have to get it from some other area.

Can you put it in a trench from a ditch witch?

Also, should I rid the area of the trees (5-6) due to roots?



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Hugh MacKay

02-16-2003 04:27:44




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 Re: Re: Re: Drainage tile question in reply to Pat, 02-15-2003 20:08:21  
Pat: I live in Canada, and must admit the 2" drainage pipe is something you don't see much of yet. I do know it is being manufactured locally. I will check out names companies and e-mails. E-mail me and I will do some digging on this for you.

I would think the ditch witch would work just fine. Big item you have to watch is staying on grade. Agricultural drainage machines all are laser controlled today, for staying on grade.

On the tree item there are certain trees that are bad. Only one I ever personally had problems with was willow. I wouldn't worry about trees around perimeter of field. Those nice shade trees in middle of field are the problem ones. I used open drainage ditches along forest line or edge of field.

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farmerjohn

02-15-2003 17:53:14




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 Re: Drainage tile question in reply to Pat, 02-15-2003 10:25:37  
I would avoid that plastic flexible stuff. If you use the 10 foot plastic get the heavier grade, I think it's called SDR-35. Gravel usually not needed if you cover the pipe with topsoil before backfilling, at least in my area, western PA.



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Hugh MacKay

02-15-2003 19:17:52




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 Re: Re: Drainage tile question in reply to farmerjohn, 02-15-2003 17:53:14  
You must grow marijuana, only crop I know of that could afford that rigid pipe. Use the flex pipe, 25 years from now it will be draining, the rigid pipe will all be broken. Believe me, I had a 1/4 million feet of tile drainage on my farm. First flex pipe went down in 1965, before that it was clay tiles. My dad put down some wooden box drain back in the 1930s. Regardless of what you use keep dual wheeled trucks OFF THE FIELD.

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