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Discbines

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Tim

03-18-2003 15:42:51




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I am thinking of upgrading from a NH 489 haybine to a discbine. I was thinking of looking at the John Deere and New Holland models. Mainly the 411,1431 or 925 John Deere. I was wondering what I should look for when purchasing one of these. I have been told that you can cut mowing time in half. I am wondering if this is true?




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kydavid

03-19-2003 10:03:30




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 Re: discbines in reply to Tim , 03-18-2003 15:42:51  
Tim,

We run discmowere now. Started out in the 80's with a 501 Ford sickle mower, rapidly upgraded to a NH474 (sickle) haybine. Still have my second haybine, keep it to cut soybeans for hay (only thing my disc mower doesn't like). Have had a couple of disc conditioners, JD's both roller and impeller. I like the impeller better. It does less damage to leave (I know this sounds like a contradiction). Sold them and went with a straight disc mower, then run a tedder). Saved big $$, time, and get just as good a drydown as with the conditioners. Got 2 5408 NI machines. Had a Bush Hog GHM 800, didn't hold up to suit me. Advantages of disc mower: speed, cut stuff no sickle I've used can touch, and faster/cheaper repairs. I can replace all my blades for $36 and 30 mins. Even with bolt on sections it takes me about an hour to get out of the field, and replace a section or guard (at $2 each for sections and $10.00 for guards). Broke 3 blades last year, total. Normally break (or lose) a guard a day and a couple of sections. Get about 4 ac/ hr with the disc mower, 3 on the haybine. Cut about 700 acres a year. Change blades (I used to sharpen, for the $$, I just replace now)beginning of season, after first cutting of alfalfa, after fescue, after timothy.

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Cliff Neubauer

03-19-2003 10:01:11




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 Re: discbines in reply to Tim , 03-18-2003 15:42:51  
We bought a NI 5409 disk mower last summer to replace an IH 1190 sickle conditioner and the disk mower will easily cut twice as much as the sickle machine. Most of our hay fields are smooth and I cut almost all of our 3rd crop hay at 15 mph but I think the real advantage is you never have to stop to unplug it or replace sections. Also replacing the blades on a disk mower costs less than $50 and takes about half an hour compared to hundreds of dollars and a full afternoon for a sickle machine.

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Hugh MacKay

03-19-2003 15:41:15




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 Re: Re: discbines in reply to Cliff Neubauer, 03-19-2003 10:01:11  
Cliff: I don't doubt what you say even a little bit, you will be knocking off 12 acres per hour. You are talking the kind of production the discbine should get. My dad always said the feild was smooth when he could get 57 Chevy sedan up to 60 mph on field.

I travel a good many hay fields, fields that were once level. I see good land stewardship going out the door. some of these places you can hardly stay on tractor seat anymore even at 5 mph. They aren't buying discbines for more production, they are buying them just so they can get it cut. You can see where the discbines are cutting the tops off the hummock and cradle hills created buy poor tillage practices. A friend of mine hosted a plowing match, said it will take him 5 years of grain to get it level again. He said if that was the best plowmen, I would hate to see the poor ones.

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Cliff Neubauer

03-19-2003 15:59:11




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 Re: Re: Re: discbines in reply to Hugh MacKay, 03-19-2003 15:41:15  
Hugh, I did mow one 12 acre field in just under an hour but it was a nice rectangle field with 80 rod rows. When we seed a hay feild we seed 100% alfalfa so it can be sold as sheep hay and it gets culti-mulched before and after we drill it to make sure it is smooth. Smooth fields also make it alot easier to stack square bales on a rack since they don't bounce all over the place. We used to rent a hay field that still had dead furrows in it from the last time it was plowed 20+ years ago so when we seed our own we make sure it's done right.

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Hugh MacKay

03-19-2003 16:45:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: discbines in reply to Cliff Neubauer, 03-19-2003 15:59:11  
Cliff: The sad part is I think seeding out a hayfield is becoming a dying art. It used to be all but a handfull of farmers took pride in their smooth fields. I overheard a couple of my emplotees having a conversation one day. Long time employee was telling new guy, you better sharpen up, he is some damn fussy, and you will not have a job.

I had a young lad working on farm once, great worker, good with machinery, quite particular with most jobs. Try as I would I couldn't get this guy to plant corn in straight rows. We planted with 656 and 400 air planter mid 70s. He always managed to wander enough so combine couldn't avoid picking two rows at one side. He went away to college 200 miles away, met a young lady, called the next spring asking if he could use me as reference. Told me where he was applying, I was aquainted with farmer. At a farm meeting some two weeks later the farmer asked about him. I said he is a great employee in most respects, only has one fault, can't plant corn in straight rows. The farmer hired him, put him right to work planting 800 acres of corn, 966 with saddle tank herdicides and 6 row planter. He told the young lad of the warning he got and said they better be straight. They were, it must have been the young lady.

I have read your posts for a few years now, have often said to myself, I bet that guys fields are smooth as glass. Took awhile to get confirmation, but it came tonight.

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JMS/MN

03-18-2003 21:29:43




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 Re: discbines in reply to Tim , 03-18-2003 15:42:51  
Started farming in 72 with an AC 80S mower, new NH haybine in 75, 800 swather in 80, New Idea discbine in 1990. Would never go back to a sickle cutter. Twice as fast? depends on what you compare it with, but generally no. But I can cut 5 acres per hour with a 9 foot discbine, like I did with a 14foot swather, with better conditioning. Big advantage is on point rows, merging into a previous windrow, whatever goes in in front, turns into a new windrow behind. Son wants to buy our machine, asked tonite if I ever plugged it. Yup, once, in 12 years. Have cut weeds higher than a tractor cab, with no plugging. Up to 140 acres alfalfa per year, 3x cutting. Less maintenance than a sickle. Big thing is to adjust spring tension on header lift to ride lightly across field with whatever tractor (hitch height) you set it for. While trying it out, had it hooked to a 4430, ran it up to 11 mph on smooth ground. Sure knows how to fillet a slow rabbit! Generally cut in fifth gear, PS, about 5 1/2 mph. Extremely good on lodged alfalfa, just slow down a bit. Buying again, I'd look at others than New Idea, but always a discbine.

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Tim

03-19-2003 04:26:28




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 Re: Re: discbines in reply to JMS/MN, 03-18-2003 21:29:43  
On my 489 haybine I have the stub guards so I have had very little plugging. Overall I am well pleased with this machine. We had a 479 with the regular guards and this machine was a nightmare for plugging it seemed as if you were going backward more than forward. I appreciate all this input from you guys as I am weighing the options of upgrading to a newer discbine or newer haybine. Any ideas as to what brand is better or if the conditioning rolls are better than an impeller?

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Hugh MacKay

03-19-2003 05:26:17




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 Re: Re: Re: discbines in reply to Tim, 03-19-2003 04:26:28  
Tim: In all fairness on this New Holland haybine question, they like many other corperations developed a good machine that improved the performance greatly over what we had been used to in past. Soon as they get a substancial market share, they start cutting costs and quality of the machine. The haybine was a prime example. The first ones being the 460 and 461 in the early 1960s had 6 bat reels. A few of the 469 had the 6 bat reel. The 6 bat reel kept the flow of material over cutter bar and on to the conditioner rolls more uniform. No question in my mind these moves were made on purpose to sell new developed products. You are a prime example, you went to a new product namly stub gards and now your thinking discbine. No question corperations downgrade these machines and it is clear manipulation. They know crankie old guys like me aren't going to be buying the new ones and most of the 6 bat reel machines are worn out by now. In that respect I was maybe a bit harsh in my previous post on this subject.

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Hugh MacKay

03-19-2003 03:10:54




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 Re: Re: discbines in reply to JMS/MN, 03-18-2003 21:29:43  
Sounds to me like discbine is just an expensive way to cut hay. I was mowing 5 acres per hour of heavy alfalfa that was coming of 5 ton dry hay per acre, using a Farmall 300 and NH 460 haybine in 1961. I later used that same New Holland haybine behind 656D and it did even better.

I have been doing quite a bit of custom spraying in past few years. The biggest problem as I see it for mowing hay these days is the younger generations use of tillage equipment. I have been spraying fields that were once smooth. You could drive a car 60 mph on these fields now you can hardly stay on tractor seat at 5 mph

How much fuel is that 4430 using per hour to mow 5 acres per hour? I used to do it on 1.25 US gal per hour with 656D, I will admit the 300 gas drank a wee bit heavier. One of the big items I continually here on these pages is no money in farming any more. It is not surprising the way some of you guys chase little jobs with big horsepower.

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Bill B

03-18-2003 19:14:54




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 Re: discbines in reply to Tim , 03-18-2003 15:42:51  
Hi, You need a 60+ horse power tractor if you really want to get the speed from it. Bill



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Bill B

03-18-2003 19:11:01




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 Re: discbines in reply to Tim , 03-18-2003 15:42:51  
Hi, You need a 60+ horse power tractor if you really want to get the speed from it. Bill



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Rick

03-18-2003 17:44:26




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 Re: discbines in reply to Tim , 03-18-2003 15:42:51  
I have a JD 1460 dis/mow cond for sale if interested. Nice machine. Yes if you can ride the tractor seat it will mow. Rick



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Tim

03-18-2003 17:56:40




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 Re: Re: discbines in reply to Rick, 03-18-2003 17:44:26  
Not sure where your located but I really don't know much about these. Other than speed are there any more advantages to a discbine? Such as faster dry down.



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Rick

03-18-2003 18:22:07




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 Re: Re: Re: discbines in reply to Tim, 03-18-2003 17:56:40  
In my opinion no. I feel like the seeding comes back quicker when using a sickle versus disc mower. One I have is nice machine but I need wider machine and I will be going back to a sickle machine.Located in southeast Iowa.



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Doug in Il.

03-20-2003 09:10:30




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: discbines in reply to Rick, 03-18-2003 18:22:07  
Bingo! Rick is right. I have seen the same thing. Disc mowers are just grass wackers, like a lawn mower. I won't allow one back in my alfalfa fields. I think the speed is some of the problem. Last year I walked my neighbors freshly cut alfalfa field. I found MANY 16" to 22" long, uncut, complete stems lying flat on the ground. They had all the leaves stripped off. Even brought a handful of them home to show my son. I saw the same thing in my fields several years ago. That, and a lot of scalping can happen too. A sickle shears the material. A rotary type machine chews it off, and the resulting injury does slow regrowth. Just my humble opinion.

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jls

03-18-2003 20:13:34




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: discbines in reply to Rick, 03-18-2003 18:22:07  
Discbines are great in their place, in fine second cut on flat ground a wider sickle machine is as fast or faster. Also rocky ground will really work havoc on a disc while you jus tap the section guards back into alignment with a hammer on a sickle. that said I run a JD 1327 with flail fingers and love it. I jus wish a new one was less than $24000( same as Krone machine). It will mow tangled matted clover, 7 ft rank timothy, and multiflora roses! I mow a lot for neighbors when their sickle machines are overmatched. 85hp on a 9' machine. Look at the cutter bar very carefully, A bearing assemb for mine is $300 and it takes 7 if memory serves. That doesn't count gaskets, idler seals ect. older machines need the pans that carry all works split to get at a bearing and lots of time they are farmer patched, slightly twisted so they bleed oil constantly, I have to top mine up before i mow but it still take less time than replacing a section . Ther are also a ton of wear plates on thecutter assemb. to protect the realitivly thin sheet metal of the pan. Something else guys in a hurry leave off. On the up side a lot of guys around here don't keep the knives sharp, replace the broken ones, pick rocks, or do their homework on these machines so a good used discbine is often as cheap as a beater

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