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3pt mounted, PTO driven generators

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Scott-NC

03-31-2003 11:12:00




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My neighbor is an MIT graduated electrical engineer. He recommended I look at pto driven generators instead of a free standing gas engine version. Reasons being: Less noise than a 3500rpm Briggs/Honda/ect, more potential KW as the tractor has more power to produce more electricity from a larger generator, better quality generator for the money as the money is spent on the generator instead of a gas engine to power it, and the ability to have an easily moved "whole house" sized generator, as 12000+KW is getting up there for size. Anybody on the forum own such a generator? I'm soliciting thoughts and observations. The tractor to be used is a 2N Ford.

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Thanks for the input!

04-02-2003 04:49:35




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 Re: 3pt mounted, PTO driven generators in reply to Scott-NC, 03-31-2003 11:12:00  
Think I'll ask around for someone close by with a pto generator and see if they'll let me "test drive" it before pursuing buying one. Of course this might be just the argument I need to get permission either buy a second tractor or to sell this one and get a larger one! Anybody interested in a 2N that has $4500 invested in it?..... ..No? I didn't think so. Thanks for the input.



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Jerry D in NC

04-01-2003 19:54:31




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 Re: 3pt mounted, PTO driven generators in reply to Scott-NC, 03-31-2003 11:12:00  
Scott,

I have a 55KW Winco that I used during the ice storm this past December. I ran the house on it with it hooked to a JD 2940 and it was steady as a rock. Most I ever saw out of it was 40 amps per leg of 240 so that would be a little less than 10KW running. Factoring in startup surges you will be very marginal on running everything but the well pump, heat, lights and microwave should be OK. The governor on that N Series would be the biggest point of concern. On a 540 PTO you will figure approximately 1 volt drop for every 2 RPM's dropped on the PTO. That would mean that (If you use 2000 RPM engine speed to get 540.... simple but close) then every 8 engine RPM's would drop a volt. To simplify the calculations you could assume a 1 volt drop for every 10 engine RPM drop. If a surge caused a 200 RPM drop then you will drop ~20 Volts. I love mine and so have the neighbors. Four of them bought PTO Generators after seeing mine run. BTW What was happening when I was seeing the 40 amp draw. Daughter taking a shower (Water Pump, Water Heater) Wife Cooking (Oven and stove top 2 burners) Clothes drying and a heat pump running plus all kinds of misc lights. Wife thought the power company was back online.

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greenbeanman

04-01-2003 05:36:51




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 Re: 3pt mounted, PTO driven generators in reply to Scott-NC, 03-31-2003 11:12:00  
I like the idea of not having yet another engine to take care of. However, will there be a time when you will be wanting to use the tractor when you are also needing to power the generator?

Another fact to consider is fuel consumption. If you have an ice storm and are without electricity for two weeks, are you willing to fuel a tractor that long for the extra KW output vs. a smaller freestanding unit? They seem to like their fuel too, however my small diesel powered generator gets by pretty economically.

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Robert in W. Mi.

04-01-2003 07:42:06




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 Re: Re: 3pt mounted, PTO driven generators in reply to greenbeanman, 04-01-2003 05:36:51  
I don't agree with the tractor useing more fuel, that is if you compare apples to apples. IN GENERAl: The tractor will use fuel according to the load on the engine, so compareing an average set up, a 6 kw generator won't run much cheaper (if as cheap) as pulling 6kw out of my pto gen set useing a 30hp diesel tractor. ALSO, on my Kohler gen set i had, it called for 25 hour oil changes. On my 30 hp Deutz tractor it calls for 200 hour oil changes. Another thing, my tractor runs on much easier to store "cheaper" diesel fuel, and the tank on my tractor is much bigger. Also my tractor runs much quieter than the Kohler powered gen set i had. I DO realize not all of these advantages will fit the origional poster with his gas tractor. BUT, i still don't think there will be a lot of difference in fuel usage between a Kohler and his ford in fuel usage loaded, but i may be wrong as i've never had a ford on a gen set.

To the poster saying pto gen sets are hard on clutches: You have some "other" problem with that clutch, because if it wasn't "over loaded", then there should NOT have been any slipage ruining the clutch!! Only slipage or a faulty clutch is causeing wear! Unless the tractor is MAXED out, pto gen sets are not hard on the tractor! Robert

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Don-WI

04-01-2003 20:42:20




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 Re: Re: Re: 3pt mounted, PTO driven generators in reply to Robert in W. Mi., 04-01-2003 07:42:06  
Like I said, they ran their entire farm off of their generator. They normally ran thier big White 2-110. My 165 was very over loaded on the PTO and was running for a good 3 hours on the generator. Normally it is very good on oil, but in just the 5 hours they put on it raking and on the gen., they burnt up 2 quarts of oil and didn't even know it. I had to swipe 2 qts before I drove it home, even if it is just 1/4 mile away.

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dhermesc

04-01-2003 11:38:42




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 Re: Re: Re: 3pt mounted, PTO driven generators in reply to Robert in W. Mi., 04-01-2003 07:42:06  
If your big concern is just for power outages I would buy the tractor powered one if you can find one at the right price. You let those little gas engines sit around and only use them two or three times a year good luck getting them to start. I know I dont want to be pulling th carb apart on my generator in the middle of a blizzard. By right price a decent PTO powered generator will probably cost just as much as one that already has an engine but will have a higher output. Unless you already have mechanical problems a generator will not be hard on the clutch.

All that said I have to admit I have a little 9 hp 4500 watt gen I bought for $100 at a garage sale, to cheap to let pass. And yes I have had to go to great lengths to make it run during an ice storm last year.

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Robert in W. Mi.

04-01-2003 15:18:48




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 3pt mounted, PTO driven generators in reply to dhermesc, 04-01-2003 11:38:42  
Years ago i started out with a 5kw welder gen set (Onan built) that i bought from Sears. It had a 10hp ohv Tecumseh motor. I took care of it and ran it a lot, so it always started pretty good. It, in fact was the only power i had for a couple years, so it was run a bit every day!! It finally develouped generator problems, and when i went back to Sears they never could find where they ever sold one like it!! They said it didn't exist, untill i took it to them, and then they just said they couldn't help me. A couple stores, and letters later i gave up!! I ended up takeing it to Onan, where it cost me 60 bucks to find out it wasn't worth what it would cost to fix it! Since then i bought a Lincoln Kohler powered welder gen set, but it was noisy and was very thirsty!! I did have a couple gen sets inbetween, but finally found the 15kw pto powered Winco that i have now. I bought it from Farm & Fleet when they went out of bussiness for $1,200.00. I really don't think that's too bad considering it's size. Now i can put my arc welder and/or wire feed on the trailor, and weld anywhere my tractor can go. It puts out enough kw to power anything i'll ever want to run, and even all at the same time if i want!! I can pull 5kw out of it easily with my compact tractor, or put it on something bigger to get full power out of it!! I see some pretty good deals on used ones from time to time too. Hope this helps, Robert

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Don-WI

03-31-2003 20:32:59




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 Re: 3pt mounted, PTO driven generators in reply to Scott-NC, 03-31-2003 11:12:00  
A few years ago, the neighbors borrowed our 165 Massey to rake hay(fergussen 3pt pto rake)and they also put it on their generator while milking. (never paid power bills) Burnt up our clutch and that tractor never set foot on their farm again, as well as the rest of our tractors, unless I was bringing back a wagon. That tractor has had 3 clutches put in it in the 8-9 years we have owned it, may not even be that long. Needs a little adjustment now, and I'm hoping thats all. Make sure your pto is good, don't wanna go through too many clutches because of constant pto running.
Donovan from Wisconsin

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Don-WI

03-31-2003 20:32:49




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 Re: 3pt mounted, PTO driven generators in reply to Scott-NC, 03-31-2003 11:12:00  
A few years ago, the neighbors borrowed our 165 Massey to rake hay(fergussen 3pt pto rake)and they also put it on their generator while milking. (never paid power bills) Burnt up our clutch and that tractor never set foot on their farm again, as well as the rest of our tractors, unless I was bringing back a wagon. That tractor has had 3 clutches put in it in the 8-9 years we have owned it, may not even be that long. Needs a little adjustment now, and I'm hoping thats all. Make sure your pto is good, don't wanna go through too many clutches because of constant pto running.
Donovan from Wisconsin

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Don-WI

03-31-2003 20:32:09




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 Re: 3pt mounted, PTO driven generators in reply to Scott-NC, 03-31-2003 11:12:00  
A few years ago, the neighbors borrowed our 165 Massey to rake hay(fergussen 3pt pto rake)and they also put it on their generator while milking. (never paid power bills) Burnt up our clutch and that tractor never set foot on their farm again, as well as the rest of our tractors, unless I was bringing back a wagon. That tractor has had 3 clutches put in it in the 8-9 years we have owned it, may not even be that long. Needs a little adjustment now, and I'm hoping thats all. Make sure your pto is good, don't wanna go through too many clutches because of constant pto running.
Donovan from Wisconsin

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Jerry A.

03-31-2003 14:37:08




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 Re: 3pt mounted, PTO driven generators in reply to Scott-NC, 03-31-2003 11:12:00  
I guess it depends on what you want it for.I own both. I've had a 10hp 6000watt (surge) generator for about 5 years. Used it at the construction site of my new shop before power was available. Have used it for other projects. I put it on wheels to roll around. It comes in handy for smaller projects. I also have it set up as power backup for our current house...it will run the furnace, sump pump and refrigerator.

Not long ago I bought a used 25 kw Wingen PTO driven generator on a small trailer to use for backup power at the new house (we'll be living out in the country). It's very sturdy and parts are still available for this model, although it's about 25 years old. It will be great for back up needs but it would be a pain to drag the tractor everywhere I needed a little electricity.

I'd suggest assessing your primary needs and spending your money there first. A 6-8 kw unit on wheels may give you what you want including some basic backup power. A larger PTO unit could be cumbersome.

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Robert in W. Mi.

03-31-2003 14:05:20




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 Re: 3pt mounted, PTO driven generators in reply to Scott-NC, 03-31-2003 11:12:00  
I have one, and i think it IS the best way to have a generator if you already have a tractor. You won't have a seperate motor to deal with, and if you take care of your tractor it will always be ready to go. Pull the generator out of the barn, plug in in, start the pto, and easily power the whole house! NO extension cords or messing around! I have mine on a trailor, so i can put my welder on board and weld away from my barn, i also can power a compressor, side grinder, lights, and about anything else i want. To work well with "on and off" big loads, your tractor needs to have a responsive govenor, i don't know how the old fords are in that department? You can figure it will take about 2 pto hp for each 1000 watts you generate, and don't take more than 80% of the MAX your tractors pto puts out for any length of time. Honda's generators are quiet and long lasting, so that would be my second choise after my pto generator. BTW, mine pto generator is a 15KW with 18KW surge. Robert

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