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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

8' Chisel Plow

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Red Raider

08-04-2004 11:20:14




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I've done a little research into preparing our fallow field into native grass, and ran across a stardard of 20 hp needed for each chisel plow shank, but we have an 8' trailer chisel plow that was pulled with a 50 hp International, for over 30 years. Could the average hp rating be different depending on the point type used?

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Ed

08-04-2004 22:45:07




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 Re: 8' Chisel Plow in reply to Red Raider, 08-04-2004 11:20:14  
You have a Graham-Hoeme (high profile) chisel plow. Hoeme invented the chisel plow in the early 1930's to keep Texas and Oklahoma from literally blowing away during the dust bowl. His first design looked alot like a heavy duty cultivator. The Graham-Hoeme was ubiquitous throughout TX and OK during the 50's drought and thereafter and was known for years as "the plow that saved the plains". The chisel plow was gradually adopted in other regions of the country too, and displaced the breaking plow as soil conservation became a higher priority. It was originally designed to be pulled over hard, dry ground at a moderate depth, less than 6", and moving just as fast as the old tractor would pull it. Speed was more important than depth due to the special manganese alloy shanks which vibrate like tuning forks in hard ground, thus fracturing the hardpan (that vibrating will also loosen the set screws holding the shanks, so tighten them often). The chisel points brought up alot of big clods to the surface. Also, if there was any surface residue, it stayed on top and was not turned over and buried like with a breaking plow. The clods and surface residue keep the sand from blowing, and chiselled up ground soaks up sparce rainfall like a sponge. Using sweeps on your plow will require more tractor power than using the original chisel points, but more importantly, you will also need some soil moisture just to get the sweeps into the ground. Even if you weight down the plow, and somehow get the sweeps to sink in, they will just wear away real fast in dry ground, so you are better off waiting until after a good rain to use the sweeps. The advantage of sweeps over points, of course, is that you bust up more ground between the shanks (greater width of disturbance) and you can cut weeds down too. You will also turn over and bury more of your surface residue, but in your fallow field that's probably good. I'm assuming you will plant some kind of cover crop like wheat or sudan that will make a nice stubble to drill your grass seed in. As far as horsepower goes, I pull a 9 shank Graham-Hoeme just like yours, only mine is low profile, with a Case 830CK. I sometimes have to keep a hand on the hydraulic lever to keep from stalling out in tough ground though. I think a 3-point chisel plow would be nice to take advantage of automatic draft control.

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J.C.H.

08-04-2004 21:15:42




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 Re: 8' Chisel Plow in reply to Red Raider, 08-04-2004 11:20:14  
In my part of Il. we called this machine a Vibra Shank cultivator and at that time it was used to work Soybean Ground or Fall Plowing to get Corn Ground ready for Planting. I used a 190 Allis and also pulled a Two section Drag or Harrow as some called them behind it. The Allis had plenty of power and did a good job. No till machines now are based on this design. This machine would not be a Chisel Plow.

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J.C. IN AZ.

08-05-2004 19:53:15




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 Re: 8' Chisel Plow in reply to J.C.H., 08-04-2004 21:15:42  
I have never seen a Chisel Plow with wide Sweeps as shown on your machine. A Chisel Plow is equipped with narrow ,, well ,,Chisel Teeth.



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JMS/MN

08-06-2004 18:51:39




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 Re: 8' Chisel Plow in reply to J.C. IN AZ., 08-05-2004 19:53:15  
To JC and JCH- this machine is well over 40 years old, and in it's day, was a chisel plow. It was used for primary tillage. Granted the frame was not as heavy as today's chisels, but then it was used with one or two passes in the fall, and maybe another in the spring to rip up hay ground before planting. It was the heaviest available at the time. As far as using sweeps on a chisel plow, we still do that, for primary tillage- especially in the spring when we don't want to go too deep, but want to undercut the entire soil surface. In the fall we use narrower shovels- 2-4 inches wide, straight or twisted, but either style can be used to run 10-12 inches deep, with enough hp in front. Lot of variances around this country.

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J.C.H.

08-04-2004 21:21:11




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 Re: 8' Chisel Plow in reply to J.C.H., 08-04-2004 21:15:42  
I should also say that 6" In Bean Stubble or Fall Plowing would usually be all the deeper any one would go with this unit. You wanted to break the Crust and get rid of new Weeds before Planting.



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Allan in NE

08-04-2004 17:53:46




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 Re: 8' Chisel Plow in reply to Red Raider, 08-04-2004 11:20:14  
Red,

Hope I'm looking at this picture right; I think those extensions were factory installed.

In this country these chiesels were sold under the Graham Hoehme(sp?) name and they were used to bust up hardpan/compaction from irrigation.

Don't ever remember seeing duckfeet on 'em, tho; bull-tongues were the usual configuration.

Their trouble was that they had no ground clearance for trash. When you got 'em in the ground so that they were working good, that frame only rode about 5 to 6" off the surface and they were always plugging up.

They were heavy and they pulled very hard in this land. An 8 footer like yours "might" be pulled by a MD down in low.

I strapped one on my 966 one time (can't remember how wide; 10-12' maybe), and it was all she wanted in 4-low. No sand here.

Regards,

Allan

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paul

08-04-2004 15:11:16




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 Re: 8' Chisel Plow in reply to Red Raider, 08-04-2004 11:20:14  
With those shovels, you must be skimming 4" into the ground, like a field cultivator. 7hp per shank is fine for that, speed is not important. Without stronger shanks, bigger frame, & springs on each shank, just does not look like a chisel plow to me.

Go 8" or deeper at 6mph with points to shatter hard clay ground like I have, and you will wish that 20hp each was enough....

--->Paul



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JMS/MN

08-04-2004 17:27:05




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 Re: 8' Chisel Plow in reply to paul, 08-04-2004 15:11:16  
The machine looks like a Graham-Hoeme chisel plow that my uncle had many years ago. Had a few fewer shanks, and pulled it behind a JD D. 1960- maybe 7 feet wide. WD would not handle it. First introduction to chisel plows in my area- now we all have them, but built with heavy frames, and front discs. Evolution of farming?



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Red Raider (update)

08-04-2004 15:09:05




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 Re: 8' Chisel Plow in reply to Red Raider, 08-04-2004 11:20:14  
A little more for you guys, thanks,... the soil I'll work is extremely sandy, not highly erodable, but almost. The out fit you see in the pics (450 Farmall, and Oliver trailer plow) was used near Seymour, Texas. Not especially tough soil as I remember and definitely not like gumbo blackland in central Texas. I plowed wheat stubble all day with this set up as a kid, but the old field that need preparing hasn't been worked for 15 years or more, then again this is very sandy soil and impossible to compact.

I thought of working the old field at 4-5 mph (torque amplifier use if necessary) with the chisel, discing with the offset, and smooth with a harrow if necessary.

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paul

08-04-2004 15:15:16




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 Re: 8' Chisel Plow in reply to Red Raider (update), 08-04-2004 15:09:05  
We must be on at the same time....

In my soils, climate, & wet ground, that wouldn't even be noticeable for trying to make a seedbed.

In your soil & climate, it's almost overkill. Sounds like you will do just fine with what you have, unless you have a heavy sod cover on the ground.....

Again, here in the black & yellow clay of southern MN, what you have would not be considered a chisel plow. :) Way too light.

Just regional differences.

--->Paul

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txblu

08-04-2004 11:56:00




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 Re: 8' Chisel Plow in reply to Red Raider, 08-04-2004 11:20:14  
And when was the last time the field saw steel? One thing I do on heavy clay fields sitting for 30 yrs without it (steel), is make several passes starting shallow and finally getting to the desired depth.

And I believe sweeps are for killing weeds (via root disturbances) for plowed fields whereas chisels are made to dig in and bite.

I have a 7 shank "Haymie" brand chisel plow that will put the chisels about 12" in the ground. Without a doubt it is the best soil buster I have ever operated. The designer set it up just right and it just digs right into the toughest soil. Pull it with a 4010 JD at about 80 hp so there is the 10-15 hp number working.

We don't use moldboards down here so I can't compare it.

Mark

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Rick

08-04-2004 11:46:40




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 Re: 8' Chisel Plow in reply to Red Raider, 08-04-2004 11:20:14  
Red Raider; with those sweeps and that light frame it is acting more like a field cultivator rather than a chisel plow. If you take the sweeps off and put chisel points on instead it will pull lot harder(will go alot deeper). And soil types always make a difference Rick



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Joe(TX)

08-05-2004 05:56:10




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 Re: 8' Chisel Plow in reply to Rick, 08-04-2004 11:46:40  
Rick is correct about the sweeps but not about the frame being light. The frame is anything but light. It is heavier than most square tube frame currently built. I have one like the one shown.



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Rick

08-05-2004 06:27:00




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 Re: 8' Chisel Plow in reply to Joe(TX), 08-05-2004 05:56:10  
It looks light compared to the ones used around here. Just different area



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JMS/MN

08-04-2004 11:41:44




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 Re: 8' Chisel Plow in reply to Red Raider, 08-04-2004 11:20:14  
HP requirement is a function of soil type, tooth design, working depth, and field speed. Base weight of the machine is also a factor- filled frame or hollow, etc. I think 20 hp is extra high, 12 to 15 is more realistic.



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ben

08-05-2004 15:41:25




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 Re: 8' Chisel Plow in reply to JMS/MN, 08-04-2004 11:41:44  
I would like some input on what I have the otherday I purchassed a almost new looking three point hook up chisel plow. it has the name on it of flemstofe 9td3 then fuglebjerg danmark and type ms. can anyone help me out on what I have the chisel arms have strong springs on them and the points can be turned over from rounded point to a sharper point,I think that it maybe 10 feet long.



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