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IH 46 baler problems

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86turbodsl

09-14-2004 07:25:25




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Bought an IH baler that I"m having problems with knotting. I have an operators manual, but it"s not helping. I sharpened the knives, and have them set to factory specs. It"s missing knots on either side, sometimes, and sometimes breaking twine. I have adjusted the twinebox tension several times, and tried adjusting the knotter tension. Does anyone have any tips?




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Jimbo

09-15-2004 16:00:55




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 Re: IH 46 baler problems in reply to 86turbodsl, 09-14-2004 07:25:25  
Had trouble with our 46 a few days ago, kept missing right side. Replaced billhook, hasn't missed once in 576 bales since. Old billhook may have been a little bent, it looks straight, but that is so hard to tell.



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86turbodsl

09-15-2004 17:13:36




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 Re: IH 46 baler problems in reply to Jimbo, 09-15-2004 16:00:55  
Was talking with another fella that has an IH baler at work, and he mentioned that the TSC twine was junk, and that could cause problems also. He recommended twine from a local New Holland dealer.



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Brad B

09-16-2004 04:43:19




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 Re: IH 46 baler problems in reply to 86turbodsl, 09-15-2004 17:13:36  
I got some twine from TSC because I ran out and was in a pinch. Had the WORST Day of trying to bale ever! Yes TSC twine is no good. I found the diam. of the twine varied through out the whole bale. When the baler was tieing and the twine got thick bad things happen. Also found the twine tention at the spools was very touchy. Manual said 4-10 lbs.I had it hardly touching the twine to make the baler work.

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Brad B

09-16-2004 04:42:38




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 Re: IH 46 baler problems in reply to 86turbodsl, 09-15-2004 17:13:36  
I got some twine from TSC because I ran out and was in a pinch. Had the WORST Day of trying to bale ever! Yes TSC twine is no good. I found the diam. of the twine varied through out the whole bale. When the baler was tieing and the twine got thick bad things happen. Also found the twine tention at the spools was very touchy. Manual said 4-10 lbs.I had it hardly touching the twine to make the baler work.

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Leroy

09-14-2004 19:14:22




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 Re: IH 46 baler problems in reply to 86turbodsl, 09-14-2004 07:25:25  
One thing that no book will tell you is that the slides on the plunger if they are worn will cause that, found that out with a New Holland 66, later bought a IHC 46 with thrower, it had a replaced plunger, (The old one was at the sale) couldnt understand at the time why plunger was replaced till it started acting up after thousands of bales



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86turbodsl

09-14-2004 20:08:20




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 Re: IH 46 baler problems in reply to Leroy, 09-14-2004 19:14:22  
Aren't the slides on the 46 wood just like the NH 68's? If so, couldn't you just replace the wood?



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Leroy

09-18-2004 02:29:22




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 Re: IH 46 baler problems in reply to 86turbodsl, 09-14-2004 20:08:20  
The slides on the 46 are welded on the plunger, can be cut off and new welded on I suppose, I know the NH 66 had wood slides but I understand that the NH 68 had rollers



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Charlie M

09-14-2004 17:55:16




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 Re: IH 46 baler problems in reply to 86turbodsl, 09-14-2004 07:25:25  
I run my 46 at about 60 strokes per minute behind my M as mentioned in the manual and have very little problems. Out of 1500 bales this year it missed only 4. I did have a lot of problems with mine a few years ago and found out there are 4 ratainers on the baler that help prevent the bale from backing up when the plunger leaves the chamber. Each is susposed to have a spring on it - mine was missing 3 of the 4 springs. I replaced te springs and cleard up the problem. It does seem to work better if the chaff from around the knotter is removed daily.

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Walter

09-14-2004 11:21:24




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 Re: IH 46 baler problems in reply to 86turbodsl, 09-14-2004 07:25:25  
make sure that the knives that cut the twine are set right. I had to put washers under their bolts to get them lined up right. If they do not cut the twine properly it will cause problems. They are very rugged and dependable balers if properly maintained.



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86turbodsl

09-14-2004 11:38:41




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 Re: IH 46 baler problems in reply to Walter, 09-14-2004 11:21:24  
I took the knives off yesterday, and set them at 5/16" away from the twine disk, and 19/32" from the edge of the notch in the twine disk. If there's a height measurement, it's not in the operators manual I have. My manual was printed in the 50's. I've heard there were modifications to the baler that some servicemen did, but I don't know if anyone ever did that to this baler. It's in pretty good shape, if rusty looking, but the knotters appear to have been maintained well, everything was kept greased, it was shedded, and the knotters look clean and polished.

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Walter

09-14-2004 13:04:51




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 Re: IH 46 baler problems in reply to 86turbodsl, 09-14-2004 11:38:41  
Look at them while they are cutting a bale and check the ends of the cut twine to see if it is cut clean. If not you should adjust them I just went by trial and error.



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Delbert

09-14-2004 08:20:47




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 Re: IH 46 baler problems in reply to 86turbodsl, 09-14-2004 07:25:25  
Sounds like it is running about normal. I have one and about the time i think i,ve got it working good it will miss tie. Gives the help on the wagon a break.



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86turbodsl

09-14-2004 09:09:02




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 Re: IH 46 baler problems in reply to Delbert, 09-14-2004 08:20:47  
Oh, that doesn't sound good. I've heard these were good balers. Was I wrong?



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old don

09-14-2004 10:41:40




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 Re: IH 46 baler problems in reply to 86turbodsl, 09-14-2004 09:09:02  
I know we had a IH45 and wouldn't miss a beat and the neighbor had a IH55 and I loaded behind both and would pray for it to act up so I could get a break but I do know when both were delivered new they both threw their backside for about a day till my dad and neighbor broke down and called the dealer and the repair guy spent about an hour on each one and I can't tell you what he did but I do remember real fine sandpaper was involved and when the guy left he told my dad a few things to do, grease regularly, use good twine and don't let the knotters get wet and I do remember something about keeping the fingers real shiny and blow the dust from around them daily ie.; chaff. Good Luck.

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Ga.Plowboy

09-14-2004 10:10:43




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 Re: IH 46 baler problems in reply to 86turbodsl, 09-14-2004 09:09:02  
I've owned several of those iH square balers. Everyone of them I bought cheap because people couldn't or wouldn't read and follow their manuals! The first thing with all of them, is to read and follow instructions about the proper twine to use. Never keep old twine from last year! Next thing I would do is to have someone turn the baler by hand while you tripp the knotter drive and watch it go thru it's cycle, stopping it when the needles reach maximum height. Then I would check everything with the manual in my hand, and I mean check it twice! I love working on these simple balers, and wish I were there, I'll bet I could have you baling! The thing most people don't understand is you don't runn these balers very many RPMS! Only fast enough to keep the flywheel spinning, and never run them empty! I hope this helps you. If you have patience, you'll do fine, if not, get rid of it before you ruin it! Ga. Plowboy

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86turbodsl

09-14-2004 10:39:09




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 Re: IH 46 baler problems in reply to Ga.Plowboy, 09-14-2004 10:10:43  
Thanks for the tips. We're going to try your suggestion about hand turning when I get out of work tonight. I'm a stickler for specs
and manuals, so I've got the knives sharpened real sharp, and set exactly to specs. The twine is new, purchased from TSC a couple weeks ago. We've been running the baler at 540 rpm, based on the engine/tach settings. I can't tell if the plunger is running at 68-75 rpm. If I can't get it working right, most likely it'll get torn down completely and rebuilt for the next years' baling over the winter.

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John/SEPA

09-14-2004 15:36:27




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 Re: IH 46 baler problems in reply to 86turbodsl, 09-14-2004 10:39:09  
I still use the 46 we bought back in 1962. 1st thing I learned was not to run it as fast as the manual says.I use an 860 Ford, about 1300-1400 RPM. One side wasn't tying well even with the knife sharp and to specs. Looked like twine disc wasn't holding onto twine. I think the discs were $80.00 each. Decided to replace the keeper blade that goes between the discs, alot cheaper. Check out the photo in your manual comparing the old and new keeper. I also changed the twine retaining spring where the twine leaves the top of the bale chamber.They were bent out of shape and about $4.00 ea. I only miss an occasional bale now. Its a good machine, parts are available, just don't push it to hard. Good luck, John

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86turbodsl

09-14-2004 17:49:09




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 Re: IH 46 baler problems in reply to John/SEPA, 09-14-2004 15:36:27  
Ok, I"m using an Oliver 55, running around 1700rpm, which gives 580 pto, letting it sag down to 1600, which would be 540. So that might be something. The keeper blade is pretty loose, moves around a lot. I don"t have a picture of an old and new twine keeper. Do you have the service manual? I only have the operators manual, about 50 pages. I also can"t find a spring on top of the bale chamber. Do you have any pictures of what it"s supposed to look like? I may have to break down and order the service manual.

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86turbodsl

09-14-2004 16:02:08




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 Re: IH 46 baler problems in reply to John/SEPA, 09-14-2004 15:36:27  
Ok, I"m using an Oliver 55, running around 1700rpm, which gives 580 pto, letting it sag down to 1600, which would be 540. So that might be something. The keeper blade is pretty loose, moves around a lot. I don"t have a picture of an old and new twine keeper. Do you have the service manual? I only have the operators manual, about 50 pages. I also can"t find a spring on top of the bale chamber. Do you have any pictures of what it"s supposed to look like? I may have to break down and order the service manual.

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John/SEPA

09-14-2004 17:21:31




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 Re: IH 46 baler problems in reply to 86turbodsl, 09-14-2004 16:02:08  
What you need is the IH Blue Ribbon Service manual. GSS-1216-No. 46 Baler Tying Mechanism.They also have one that covers the power train. You might still be able to get them from Case-IH or one of the other after market manual supply places. Have also seen them on EBay. Pick up a parts manual also if you can. The keeper is supposed to be loose between the discs. Its the way its shaped that holds the twine tight and if it is worn, it just wont hold it tight. The spring is flat, riveted to the inside of the bale chamber, right beside the breast plate finger. The finger is what you see the twine lying on top of when it leaves the chamber going to the twine discs. It holds the twine at the corret place for the bill hook to pick up during tying. The flat spring keeps the twine from sliding off the finger, but still be able to pull off under pressure after knot is made. Also keep dirt and chaff away from knotters and little pieces of twine that seem to collect around the discs. Sorry I can't post pictures, not that smart yet. Parts are available thru Case-IH. They get them from the obsolete parts people. Hope this helps. John

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Ken Koch

09-14-2004 17:54:46




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 Re: IH 46 baler problems in reply to John/SEPA, 09-14-2004 17:21:31  
While looking in the Operator's Manual for my dad's 46 baler I found a paper that must have come with a update package. Here is what the front side of the sheet says.....

INSTALLING INSTRUCTIONS Knotter, Hook and Closing Cam Service Package (667 587 R91) for INTERNATIONAL 46 and 56 Twine Balers

Read these instructions carefully, paying special attention to the included illustrations before beginning assembly of parts.

One each of the following parts make up this service package: 666 511 R92 Knotter Hook, Cpt. 667 533 R1 Knotter Jaw Cam Bolt 667 563 R1 Knotter Jaw Closing Cam U13 033 Closing Cam Spring

1. Visual differences in the old and new hook assembly are illustrated in sketch 1. Remove the old hook from the knotter and install the new one from the package. Check the knotter shaft end play with a feeler gage. Shim under the pinion if necessary to bring the end play into the specified range of .oo5" to .o15". See sketch 2. Check the jaw opening to see that it is 9/16" +/- 1/64".

2. Remove the V-619 Knotter Jaw Closing Cam from the knotter and install the (667 563 R1) cam from package. Use the included (667 533 R1) 3/8" x 2-7/8" square head bolt and (U-13033) spring. Adjust the spring lenght with the knotter hook in home position (jaw completely closed) to suit the twine size used in knotters: that is, for 185 ft. per lb. twine, set the spring length to 1-1/8" to 1-5/32"; for 231 ft. per lb. twine, set the spring length to 1-3/16" to 1-7/32". See sketch 3.

INTERNATIONAL HARVESTER COMPANY
401 North Michigan Avenue Chicago, Illinois 60611, U.S.A.
1 010 334 R1 9-17-62 Printed in United States of America

I can e-mail you the back side of the sheet showing the sketches if you would like. Good luck and hope this helps. Ken

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86turbodsl

09-14-2004 18:10:42




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 Re: IH 46 baler problems in reply to Ken Koch, 09-14-2004 17:54:46  
Yes, please do, maybe then I can identify if mine has the updated parts. send to dieseltempo at yahoo.com Thanks.



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86turbodsl

09-14-2004 17:48:59




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 Re: IH 46 baler problems in reply to John/SEPA, 09-14-2004 17:21:31  
Sounds like I need to order manuals. I slowed it down about 300 engine rpm, and the outside knotter ties pretty well, the inside one, it is just wrapping around the billhook and breaking every time it ties. I don"t think it did a good inside knot tonight. Of course, I only tried to bale about 5 bales. I spent a bunch of time watching the knotters at 400 engine rpm. There doesn"t appear to be any springs on the flat piece that holds the twine in the right spot. Just flat hooks, with a notch where the twine sits. When the needles come up, the twine is pretty loose, even though I have quite a bit of pressure on the twine tensioners.

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Ken Koch

09-14-2004 18:30:17




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 Re: IH 46 baler problems in reply to 86turbodsl, 09-14-2004 17:48:59  
Looking in my dad's Operator's Manual for his McCormick 46, it dosn't show how to adjust the the needles side play or needles-to-knotters setting. I have a Case 230 baler (most balers use a version of the McCormick knotter including the Case)and I broke both needles this spring. I replaced them with 2 used needles. (The Operators Manual for the Case baler tells how to set the clearence for the needles.) After I replaced them, one side would tie perfect and the other side would miss about every 10th bale. The manual for my Case 230 baler says the needles should be set at a light rub to 1/16" clearance from the knotter frame. At the same time the Needles should be 1/16" from the Twine Disc Cleaners. I had to put some shims under the needle that was not tying good to get it to rub the knotter frame very light and now it ties great. Make very sure the needle height is right also! (See Illust. 33C - Measurement of proper twine needle height. in the 46 Operators Manual.) You may have a improperly adjusted or BENT needle. This maybe something for you to look at also. Good luck!

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Delbert

09-14-2004 18:06:35




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 Re: IH 46 baler problems in reply to 86turbodsl, 09-14-2004 17:48:59  
That sounds like tension problem in twine box when it wraps twine around the billhook. Try tighting the tension on that side in the twine box. And also like others have said run the pto slow. They where still built like the old binders that were pulled with horses and they didn,t go very fast. The baler it,s self will let you know if your feeding it to fast. They will make as good a bale as any on the market.

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86turbodsl

09-14-2004 20:05:33




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 Re: IH 46 baler problems in reply to Delbert, 09-14-2004 18:06:35  
I've tried every tension I can on the twine box tensioner. Right up to where it starts breaking the twine because it's so stiff.



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86turbodsl

09-14-2004 18:13:16




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 Re: IH 46 baler problems in reply to Delbert, 09-14-2004 18:06:35  
I've tried every tension I can on the twine box tensioner. Right up to where it starts breaking the twine because it's so stiff.



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TimS

09-15-2004 07:58:02




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 Re: IH 46 baler problems in reply to 86turbodsl, 09-14-2004 18:13:16  
I don't have experience on this kind of baler, but if the twine is staying on the bill hook, maybe the billhook tension is to high ( if it has a bill hook tenstion adjustment, haha ) ?

Does it have a wiper arm to wipe the knot off the bill hook? Maybe that wiper arm isn't adjusted close enough to the bill hook?



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