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Compare ground speed with cutting methods.

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Loren

06-26-2005 10:29:06

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I"ve been mulling over my haying system and it"s faults. Time is the biggest problem at this point. 45 year old Case baler does a pretty darned good job after the first "warmup" rows. Since I"ve removed the offending swath guides under the old Case swather it has ceased to attain " $^*%$@# thing" status. Since I completely redesigned the Sitrex into a hyr. operated trailer, it"s doing a tremendously better job. But, last year it took my almost a month to hay 40 acres. Granted I hold a 40-50 hour job also, and am using all antique equipment, but that"s ridiculous. Sould have been two weeks tops. What could I expect for ground speed from the different cutting methods? Haybine, discbine, drum and disc mowers, swathers better than mine, whatever else? I am haying pretty rough ground so that is a big consideration. Right now I"m running a 300 Utility and a 77 Standard Ollie. Weighing the benefits/costs of going to a bigger tractor with a better cut system vs whatever. Loren.

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BobMo

06-26-2005 14:19:23

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Re: Compare ground speed with cutting methods. in reply to Loren, 06-26-2005 10:29:06

Loren, I was faced with the same problem. It was taking all my time to do cutting. Some fields were ready to bale by the time I was through cutting. Even though it was expensive I cured the problem with a 12ft NH SP haybine. I don't like to get ahead of myself when the weather is iffy so now I cut 2 hours about lunch time 15-20 acres each day. If the weather is good it will be ready to rake the morning of the second day, bale and go in the barn that afternoon.
I NEVER use the tedder if I can keep from it as it makes such a mess of the hay the rake doesn't do a good job picking it up. Tedders should be keep for occasions when needed such as rain after cutting or to beat impending bad weather. I also use an 8 bale accumulator so I can pick it up and on wagons quickly. If I don't get it all off loaded at least I can get it under roof since I won't sell rained on hay. Cutting was my biggest bottle neck but, now its a non-issue. You can buy a pretty good unit for 5-7000. Good luck in whatever you do.

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Allan in NE

06-27-2005 05:21:53

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Re: Compare ground speed with cutting methods. in reply to BobMo, 06-26-2005 14:19:23

Mornin' Bob,

I know we all do it differently in different parts of the country.

But if the weather is good, why do you have to rake behind a swather? Can't you just bale the silly stuff and be done with it?

Seems to me that the fewer times you handle the hay the higher the quality?

Thanks,

Allan

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BobMo

06-27-2005 07:43:12

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Re: Compare ground speed with cutting methods. in reply to Allan in NE, 06-27-2005 05:21:53

Your absolutely correct, its not required, but when I rake I rake 2 swaths into one eliminating the added trip through the field with the baler. I also try to rack as early as possible to eliminate chatter.
Baling behind the swather leaves a ragged looking field and for myself doesn't work well because the higher volumn in a winrow provides a better and tighter bale. The lower volumn will leaves you a loose crappy irregular bale.

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Sid

06-26-2005 12:00:26

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Re: Compare ground speed with cutting methods. in reply to Loren, 06-26-2005 10:29:06

My opinion, sickel mower conditioner is a big step up from that in both reduced time as well as cutting time. My old baler would not take double windrows in some of my hay so I just tightened it up and eliminated raking. The vee type or double rakes cut raking time in half. I still cut with a sickel conditioner. That is going to change when some bills get paid. Drum and disc mowers are a great improvement and great time savers in my opinion.

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Hay Dr

06-26-2005 11:55:35

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Re: Compare ground speed with cutting methods. in reply to Loren, 06-26-2005 10:29:06

You have many good options. It all depends how much money you want to spend. If you want to purchase a new mower the CCM drum mower is the cheapest way out. Less Than $2500 NEW. That mower will cut 3-5 acres per hour with the hay in any condition. You will not plug it and it does not need exterior hydraulics on your tractor.

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Roy in UK

06-26-2005 11:21:15

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Re: Compare ground speed with cutting methods. in reply to Loren, 06-26-2005 10:29:06

A Disc mower and a tedder. A disc mower will cut at whatever speed your tractor (and you!) can tolerate. It will cut any tangled or laid crop in any direction.

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Loren

06-26-2005 13:41:52

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Unfounded concerns with disc/drum mowers? in reply to Roy in UK, 06-26-2005 11:21:15

My worry about the disc/drums is that without a "tailwheel" (for lack of a better word) would allow the outboard end to dig in when the bumps tilt the tractor that way, and cut air going the other way, leaving a horrible looking cut and possible $$$ for repairs. ??? To get a small enough length mower to eliminate this would negate most benefits of increased production. Do any of these units actually ride the ground or have a wheel to eliminate this problem? These fields are pretty rough guys.
Oh, the Case swather does have a conditioner built in. Wish I had experience with other equipment.
Thanks for the help. Loren.

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alan in uk

06-26-2005 14:01:20

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Re: Unfounded concerns with disc/drum mowers? in reply to Loren, 06-26-2005 13:41:52

We have a mounted lely 8ft disk mower conditioner, (used it today!!) you can really motor on with it, it follows the ground lovely, and cuts laid crops well. i use it on a 80horse power tractor with no problems! Alan in uk

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Roy in UK

06-26-2005 15:43:44

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Re: Unfounded concerns with disc/drum mowers? in reply to alan in uk, 06-26-2005 14:01:20

Had the same machine Alan on a Massey 168! not even a wisp of smoke lovely tool. Heck if its good silage/haymaking weather are you going to sit back and waste a good day?

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Alan in UK

06-26-2005 23:39:35

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Wasting a day??? ... the day was over.... time di in reply to Roy in UK, 06-26-2005 15:43:44

ha ha ha, Roy, i was off to bed when i posted last night,(it was 9:30 i think) i had made use of a very nice day! lugged 36 round bales of silage for myself and mowed 7 acres of first cut silage for a customer, i'm going to be baling it today!!

The post time is different to what is printed with the post!!! the time here and now is 07:53AM I've been up since 5:00, milked 70 cows, and i've just come in for my breakfast!!

Have a good day!
Take care all
Alan in UK

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Roy in UK

06-26-2005 15:43:01

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Re: Unfounded concerns with disc/drum mowers? in reply to alan in uk, 06-26-2005 14:01:20

Had the same machine Alan on a Massey 168! not even a wisp of smoke lovely tool. Heck if its good silage/haymaking weather are you going to sit back and waste a good day?

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buickanddeere

06-26-2005 14:55:58

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Working on the Sabbath? Re: Unfounded concerns wi in reply to alan in uk, 06-26-2005 14:01:20

Working on the Sabbath?

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alan in the uk

06-26-2005 23:46:47

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Re: Working on the Sabbath? Re: Unfounded concern in reply to buickanddeere, 06-26-2005 14:55:58

No rest for the wicked, or so they say!!!

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Ken Macfarlane

06-26-2005 19:09:52

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Re: Working on the Sabbath? Re: Unfounded concern in reply to buickanddeere, 06-26-2005 14:55:58

The cutterhead of the disc rides on rub plates on the ground so it follows very well, it isn't fixed to the tractor angle.

I was thinking of the production issue myself. If the fields are rough and you are already driving at your max comfort level, you need to go wider. But if the fields are extremely rough a 14 ft pull type swather is going to miss dips and hit bumps etc.

I'm not familiar with purpose built swathers as no one owns one here in the east. Everyone uses pull type equipment.

I was mowing today with a 9 ft haybine and I could only stand 4.2 mph (4 acres an hour). The fellow that cut it last year had a 12 ft wide discbine with a big JD and was hitting 12 mph in the same fields. (he also has back problems, go figure) I'm sure our mower would go faster but not with me piloting it.

I would love to set up a front mount mower conditionor and match it with a pull type or semi-mounted on the rear.

Ken

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Loren

06-26-2005 22:30:57

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Re: Working on the Sabbath? Re: Unfounded concern in reply to Ken Macfarlane, 06-26-2005 19:09:52

If pretty much all the disc and drum mowers ride the ground then I'll be thinking that direction maybe. That'll be, what, $5-$6K for a decent used tractor and a used mower to match? The 300U won't handle much width judging by the hp figures I've seen in some literature.
Ken, on the front mounted and haybine thought, that's the same thing I've had in mind. Feel like getting a tractor more than big enough to handle a discbine and take the swather head with rolls off the Case and mount it up front. Maybe a hyd. drive for it.

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edchainsaw

06-26-2005 19:55:21

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Re: Working on the Sabbath? Re: Unfounded concern in reply to Ken Macfarlane, 06-26-2005 19:09:52

I've run a disc mower for 25yrs now.... mowed everything you can think of.. ruts, hog wallows, yards(yes lazy renters) and ditch banks, road sides (rocks included) fence posts and all.. never spent much on the thing

it has always left a good cut even with bad knife's..

oh and I would LOVE to have one of those CLAAS machines 250hp- 30ft cut (3 sections front left and right) and condtioners --- YA ... I need that for my 100acres of hay a year!

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mlm

06-27-2005 22:27:51

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Re: Working on the Sabbath? Re: Unfounded concern in reply to edchainsaw, 06-26-2005 19:55:21

What brand of disc mower did you use?. sounds very dependable.

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edchainsaw

06-26-2005 19:55:04

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Re: Working on the Sabbath? Re: Unfounded concern in reply to Ken Macfarlane, 06-26-2005 19:09:52

it has always left a good cut even with bad knife's..

oh and I would LOVE to have one of those CLAAS machines 250hp- 30ft cut (3 sections front left and right) and condtioners --- YA ... I need that for my 100acres of hay a year!

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Roy in UK

06-26-2005 22:17:08

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Re: Working on the Sabbath? Re: Unfounded concern in reply to edchainsaw, 06-26-2005 19:55:04

Do you mean this? The Claas Cougar is actually 14 metres(nearly 46 feet) wide and has a 480hp Daimler-Chrysler engine.it has been said you can knock 50 acres an hour down with it!

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Hay DR

06-27-2005 06:28:45

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Bigger is not always better in reply to Roy in UK, 06-26-2005 22:17:08

For $30,000 each one can easily purchase a NEW 70 HP tractor and a 10.5' disc mower. Krone has a big cutter like the Class pictured and it lists for $360,000. For less than half the money, 5 tractors equiped with 10.5' disc mowers would at least the same amount of work as the unit pictured.

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Tim(nj)

06-27-2005 07:25:35

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Re: Bigger is not always better in reply to Hay DR, 06-27-2005 06:28:45

That"s assuming you have people to run those tractors. The only use for that big SP mower I can see is a custom cutter who has one guy knocking down a bunch of grass and a crew of 10 running SP choppers and trucks behind him.

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Ken Macfarlane

06-27-2005 06:19:39

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Re: Working on the Sabbath? Re: Unfounded concern in reply to Roy in UK, 06-26-2005 22:17:08

Wow. What kind of acres would you have to own to make that thing pay for itself!

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Roy in UK

06-27-2005 11:54:23

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Re: Working on the Sabbath? Re: Unfounded concern in reply to Ken Macfarlane, 06-27-2005 06:19:39

It is designed for agricultural contractors really. By the way its not just a mower, each cutterbed has its own flail conditioner.

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edchainsaw

06-27-2005 20:40:06

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Re: Working on the Sabbath? Re: Unfounded concern in reply to Roy in UK, 06-27-2005 11:54:23

actually I dint know they had that new model :) I only saw the smaller one.. :)

I working by myself could use that real effectively.. I cant mow enough in the morning to keep me baling very long the next day when I bale--- ( here its dry enough most of the time and hay's not good) you can mow from 7am till dews off. then you go and rake what you mowed the morning before.. and bale... I can mow for 2-3 hrs and bale up 15 or 20 bales..

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