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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

What Would You Do?

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Allan in NE

07-20-2005 05:31:16




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Morning Guys,

The trouble with buying farm ground is that you really don't know what you have ‘til you sink a shank in the ground firsthand.

Field in question (now wheat stubble) needs attention; it has looked Nitrogen deficient all year. My original plan was to just disc the fire out of it this fall and drop in some alfalfa along with a healthy and liberal dose of fertilizer.

When walking in adjoining farms on three sides, also in wheat stubble, the soil is firm, but is still “loose” soil, for a lack of a better way of describing it. These farmers use chisels in their ground prep.

Yesterday, I take a little stroll out thru my wheat stubble just to make sure there is not any extra straw that is gonna deal me fits and the ground feels like I’m walking on cement. I’m wondering if I have some compaction going on or is it just the lack of humus.

Don’t know for sure, but I suspect that all my field has ever seen is a spring tooth harrow and the drill for a large number of years. Really wondering what the best course of action would be here to get the soil built back up in a hurry??

Think I ought to stay with the disc idea and the alfalfa? If so, it appears to me that it is going to take a double discing at the very least to get this soil loosened up. I really don’t want to go to a deep tillage if at all possible prior to the alfalfa.

Thanks for your thoughts and ideas,

Allan

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RickL

07-22-2005 05:31:22




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 Re: What Would You Do? in reply to Allan in NE, 07-20-2005 05:31:16  
I would just notill drill it,nothing else,alfalfa for the best seeding you want a very firm base with good seed to soil contact. I run a marlis coulter drill that I have modified and run 44 coulters on a 15ft bars this gives me a coulter every 4 inches and it works slick for doing what your are wanting to do firm base with loos e soil for the seed. Photo of unit on my web site if you would like to look. www.Ricksales.com PS I very seldom seed alfalfa in the fall,I have much better luck in the spring in getting very good stands.

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RickL

07-22-2005 05:31:14




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 Re: What Would You Do? in reply to Allan in NE, 07-20-2005 05:31:16  
I would just notill drill it,nothing else,alfalfa for the best seeding you want a very firm base with good seed to soil contact. I run a marlis coulter drill that I have modified and run 44 coulters on a 15ft bars this gives me a coulter every 4 inches and it works slick for doing what your are wanting to do firm base with loos e soil for the seed. Photo of unit on my web site if you would like to look. www.Ricksales.com PS I very seldom seed alfalfa in the fall,I have much better luck in the spring in getting very good stands.

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VernMN

07-21-2005 10:23:45




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 Re: What Would You Do? in reply to Allan in NE, 07-20-2005 05:31:16  
Allan, I would chisel it then disc. I think the alfalfa would like it and take hold. I like to alternate between chisel and plow on my fields.



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txgrn

07-20-2005 17:59:26




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 Re: What Would You Do? in reply to Allan in NE, 07-20-2005 05:31:16  
"I really don't want to go to deep tillage..... "

Why not? You just told us that your neighbor (3 neighbors) was (were) doing it with his (their)chisel(s) and you obviously liked it.

Around here the black clay has no memory. You have to run the chisel every year to get moisture absorption and later the velvet soil you want on top to allow the water to stay below so stuff will grow when it is dry like now. So it's chisel, disc, disc, in the spring cultivator sweeps or disc and that's what it takes.

The previous owner just left you a bag of worms cause he was too lazy to do it right. Now you have to do it my man.....unless you want more of the same and obviously you don't or you wouldn't be diddling us to give you a shove to do what you know needs to be done anyway..... right bro?

Do it!

Mark

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KMS/MN

07-20-2005 10:44:36




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 Re: What Would You Do? in reply to Allan in NE, 07-20-2005 05:31:16  
Discs are known for packing the soil. Field cultivators loosen it. Chisel plows also loosen the dirt more than a moldboard plow and allow for more water absorption. They typically cut deeper than the plow, and get through the hardpan from many years of moldboarding.



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R Wyler

07-20-2005 10:23:50




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 Re: What Would You Do? in reply to Allan in NE, 07-20-2005 05:31:16  
Hello Allan I know what you mean I am just starting to farm and hard pan is a common problem I have alot on my 22 acre wheat field I have had it a couple years and plow it annually. I am finishing plowing it now. I chiseled part of it with an old 7 shank Graham Hoeme though I am wanting a newer better chisel multiple passes are a must when useing a 930 Case as a chisel is a hard pull. I have saw pics of your rollover plow it looks like a real jewel you may have to plow or that is what I would do or perhaps chisel.That rollover plow should be really nice to use and faster than a regular plow also. Since you have 3 point maybe a 3pt chisel would work well. Drop me an email sometime I would enjoy talking with you. R Wyler

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Hoosier Pete

07-20-2005 15:23:43




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 Re: What Would You Do? in reply to R Wyler, 07-20-2005 10:23:50  
Hey Wyler, you really got one of those ole Grahams? I been looking for one here in central Indiana and nobody knows what I'm talkin about? If any of you guys have a line on one of these critters somewhere close to me I'd be interested.
Pete



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R Wyler

07-21-2005 04:37:29




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 Re: What Would You Do? in reply to Hoosier Pete, 07-20-2005 15:23:43  
Yes I have a 7 shank model it sounds like they are rare up your way. I know a used equipment dealer around 15 or 20 miles south and east of Stillwater OK that has some. I can e-mail you their # if you like.



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bustedplow

07-27-2005 21:36:59




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 Re: What Would You Do? in reply to R Wyler, 07-21-2005 04:37:29  
I was having a conversation with my dad about equipment he used in northwestern Oklahoma working for the neighbors as a kid in the 40's. He told me about the Graham Hoeme plow. I thought I would like to try a Graham on my small holding. I live in south central Kansas and we have a pretty tight soil. Please share the dealers contact information if you would please.
Thanks, David



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R Wyler

07-28-2005 06:52:58




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 Re: What Would You Do? in reply to bustedplow, 07-27-2005 21:36:59  
Sure there phone # is 918-374-2525 I will mail you the # also.



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Allan in NE

07-20-2005 10:34:16




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 Re: What Would You Do? in reply to R Wyler, 07-20-2005 10:23:50  
Hi Guy,

I have another 115 acres of old hay ground/grass sod to crawl thru and was hoping that I wouldn't have to plow this 70 acres too.

I think I'm gonna try the disc route first. If I can just get it loosened up enough for that baby alfalfa, I'd be happy with letting the roots loosen 'er up by doin' their thing.

Allan



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Tim(nj)

07-20-2005 12:28:06




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 Re: What Would You Do? in reply to Allan in NE, 07-20-2005 10:34:16  
Allan, when (if?) it rains, does the water stand on those hard fields a long time afterwards? You could rent or hire a subsoiler (the newer ones with narrow profile shanks don"t disturb the surface much) to break the hardpan and then disk it. Here, with all the precipitation, hard ground like that won"t support alfalfa because the water lays too long around the crowns and promotes rot and disease. Spreading gypsum on the fields is supposed to help loosen the soil. I haven"t tried that yet, but they"re pushing it for continuous no-tillers in this area. How"s your pH? We have naturally low pH, around 5.5, so lime is a must for alfalfa.

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Allan in NE

07-20-2005 13:09:24




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 Re: What Would You Do? in reply to Tim(nj), 07-20-2005 12:28:06  
Hi Tim,

If ya see water standing in a field here, you are either drunk or in the wrong state. Just doesn't happen. :>)

I confess, been too many years. What's neutral? 6.5-6.8 something like that? All I do know is that every soil test you get back, the PH is perfect. Lime just is not a thing that we have to do here.

Allan



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R Wyler

07-20-2005 10:53:51




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 Re: What Would You Do? in reply to Allan in NE, 07-20-2005 10:34:16  
Hello Allan I see what you mean there. Surely one or 2 discings would make a seedbed for alfalfa. I dont know about alfalfa and I find it interesting that it loosens up hard soil. My dad raised it for years I wish he were here to teach me about it now. I have a small portion of my place that is hard and alfalfa would probly do it alot of good Maybe I should plant it to alflalfa this fall maybe 3 acres or so. I dont have any hay tools though I have a couple sickle mowers. It is a good buisiness though. I am sure you will get it into alfalfa easily. I know after useing that chisel I really like it almost better than plowing ;>) now I want a really good chisel. I'll have to show you some pics of my utensils. Richard.

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