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MSD Ignition Question

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John T

03-03-2003 15:26:55




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Ok guys, Ive been known to offer maybe one or two opinions on 2 cyliner ignitions before lol and know darn good n well the engineering advantages of solid state high energy ignition systems, but am lookign for experience and opinions on any MPG increase if I install an MSD High Energy Ignition (with adjustable dashboard timing knob) on my big block 460 V8 Ford Motorhome. I have ran Class C Van Styles for years, cuz I like the easy in and out front doors, lower center gravity, less wind drag, and the top bed when we had young kids) and on Florida trips, I can get 8.33 mpg with a 25" 350 Chevy, 8.40 with a 26" 360 Dodge, and 8.30 with a 25" 460 Ford. Ive had Dodge 413 (a good heavy duty true truck engine) and 440 in Class A's and prefer Chevy 350, but you have to go with whats available on these older coaches, plus 350 isnt quite enough horse for the 29 footer I have now.

Okay, the first thing I ALWAYS do on ALL my campers is install dual 2 1/2 inch exhaust with free flow turbo mufflers, Accell High Performance Cap n Rotor with brass inserts, 8 mm wires, and Double Platinum Plugs, and I do the weight advance on some distributors. Those things alone, especially the 2 1/2 duals, always nets me about 1/2 more MPG or more.

So my question is, how much if any MPG savings do you think an MSD Ignition (with dashboard adjustable variable timing)would yield???? Im talkin carbs and non computer of fuel injected here, of course. Any you guys used them or the Jacobs Ignition?????

Appreciate all the help I can get. Thanks

Ol John T Nordhoff in Indiana

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test

03-07-2003 15:55:08




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 Re: MSD Ignition Question in reply to John T, 03-03-2003 15:26:55  
test



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Mike Aylward

03-04-2003 06:33:04




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 Re: MSD Ignition Question in reply to John T, 03-03-2003 15:26:55  
John, one thing you might consider on your 460 is a different camshaft or even just a different timing chain setup. In about 1970 or so Ford (and possibly other makes) retarded their camshaft timing to meet government standards for emissions. Most of the engines had the camshaft retarded in the neighborhood of about 4-6 degrees which really hurt performance. This is one reason everyone used to complain about vehicles "not running as good as they used to" in the 70's. If you would install a timing chain set from an earlier 460 or 429 you would see a noticeable increase in both power and mileage. There are several good aftermarket torque cams out there, too, which would help that much more. There are some tricks you can do in the distributor on these older Ford engines that will help a bunch as well. Hope this helps. Mike

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John T (Thanks Guys)

03-04-2003 05:13:46




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 Re: MSD Ignition Question in reply to John T, 03-03-2003 15:26:55  
Thanks for the good and appreciated info. From readign the replies, Im thinkin the MSD alone wouldnt help MPG all that much at my relatively low RPM's, as the stock ignition with good wires and platinum plugs is already probably doing a pretty good job. I do often run a flex tubing out of the air cleaner down near the front to force cool air in, and that sure cant hurt I figure. Take care, Ol John T

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Steve - IN

03-04-2003 11:49:06




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 Re: Re: MSD Ignition Question in reply to John T (Thanks Guys), 03-04-2003 05:13:46  
John T,
Probably a good decision on your part. I read an article recently about some maverick design group at Chrysler that took Durango's from 18 to 22mpg hwy EPA ratings by using tricks like a full length belly pan to smooth airflow, and using shutters (yup, kinda like on an old JD) on the grille to decrease the drag of air flowing into the engine when the cooling wasn't needed.

A trick they use on Newell motorhomes is to remove the big, honking rear view mirrors hanging out in the airstream and replace them with a couple of CCD cameras on the back and a little flat panel monitor on the dash. That idea alone might save as much as the MSD box, and cost less.

If you decide to try your hand at artistry in fiberglass to make the whole van more wedge shaped, there's a "windtunnel" set up in an old barn out in Danville, Indiana where you could test out your work.

Steve

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Clooney

03-04-2003 04:06:35




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 Re: MSD Ignition Question in reply to John T, 03-03-2003 15:26:55  
John, first, I can’t answer your MSD/MPG question, there are just too many unknowns & variables. If you have a good solid high energy factory ignition on that Ford engine I doubt you would gain anything though. If you have a knock sensor equipped set up you could even lose a little. Even that 2.5” exhaust could cost you a little MPG at constant road speed if you have a carbureted engine with a vacuum controlled metering system. ~The biggest MPG factor on those big heavy wide motor homes is wind resistance & rolling resistance at hi-way speeds followed by launch weight at low & city speeds. Anything you can do to lower the wind resistance will greatly improve the hi-way mileage. Air dams, air flow deflectors, lowering the vehicle., even a good removal of the bugs can effect the highway mileage. ~I’m not familiar with your RV body style but if it’s like most, the stock Ford chassis is placed under the body with little thought to carb air intake. Make sure the carb is getting a good unrestricted flow of cool outside air, if it is breathing hot engine compartment air you are giving up mileage there. Make sure the tires are inflated as far as allowed & the toe in is at minimum specs for your chassis.
~The fuel you use has a big effect on mileage so stay away from anything with alcohol in it.
~Adding fuel injection would probably give you the biggest boost in mileage but unless you can find a factory fuel injection system with the correct algorithms for your engine & correct injection tables for your weight class you could have other problems.
~That 8.3 MPG average for a 29 footer with 460 gas engine doesn’t sound out of line for a carbureted set up at probably around 60-65 MPH. The big killer of hi-way MPG is pushing that brick through the air.

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Steve - IN

03-03-2003 21:30:40




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 Re: MSD Ignition Question in reply to John T, 03-03-2003 15:26:55  
John T,
All the MSD units I've ever seen stuck on a firewall or fender well were there for performance. As you know, they make things better as RPM's get higher. You're just going to be loping down the road at low range RPM's. There's probably some benefit from fuller combustion, but the multiple spark trick doesn't really comes into its own until the engine starts screaming.

Last time I remember a guy I knew spending serious money for fuel economy was during the 70's when it looked like there was no more gas -- or we had to stand in long lines for the priviledge of pumping it. That guy concentrated on the fuel/breathing side of the equation with an Edelbrock high rise runner manifold and carb setup, a set of tubular headers, plus I think he even stuck in a funny cam. Memory fades -- but I do remember him claiming 20 or 25% better economy on a Jeep Cherokee ('course he was a Naval Aviator, so 25 probably meant 12.5%).

You know as well as any of us that most performance gains are hard won. I'd guesstimate you might be in for a percentage point or two of bump in economy. What kind of indicators are you going to use to know how much advance to dial in or out? Good hearing? And are you doing anything on the fuel side of the equation? Used to have one of those add-on, do-it-yourself fuel metering / instant MPG readout things with an A to D fuel flow device in the gas line stuck on my old Ford cube van. If nothing else, that taught me to drive like I was pressing on the proverbial egg on the accelerator.

I've spent too many hours in something with wings turning the mixture knob and watching the EGT gauges to think you can really get anywhere and not pay a lot of attention to that side of the equation. And the sweetest carbs I've ever worked with on a Ford engine are those downdraft 40mm Webers like ol' Shelby used to stick on his snake cars. Takes about two minutes per to change the main jets. You can lean out the engine to the short hairs for the ambient atmospherics and use the advance for fine tuning. (now I've upped the parts bill by an order of magnitude, huh?)

Good luck with the project.

Steve

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Garland

03-03-2003 20:14:36




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 Re: MSD Ignition Question in reply to John T, 03-03-2003 15:26:55  
John T. I have a MSD on my puller but I couldn't answer your fuel question maybe if you directed this question to MSD they probably could answer it.If I was trying to lick the fuel thing I'd go for high horse power and tall gearing,I'm looking at this were you get set up and engine just loafs along at hiwy speed and I don't think gasoline engines will do that. Just an opinion John T wish I could have been more help. P.S. I like them rattlin Diesels. Gman

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