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1956 60 Is Running Over 200 Degrees-Clooney has th

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JD60

06-20-2003 20:16:17




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The tractor eventually gets up over 200 F and then I shut it down. What causing this? I made extra sure last fall to make sure the antifreeze was pretty rich..would this do that..too thick to pump on a weak water pump?? Or just a bad pump...
Thanks!!




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Steve - IN

06-21-2003 12:07:15




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 Re: 1956 60 Is Running Over 200 Degrees-Clooney ha in reply to JD60, 06-20-2003 20:16:17  
JD60,
Lots of good info given. Two points I don't see, though.

With a 50/50 mixture of water / glycol antifreeze, your boiling point gets to 227 degrees F. If it's rich, let's say 70%, it will boil at 238 F. The above numbers are for an unpressurized system at sea level, 1 bar or 14.7 psi atmospheric pressure.

My 60 has a spring on the radiator cap. Not sure how much pressure it provides, but let's say 4psi. At anywhere below 1000 feet above sea level, that usually means a boiling point of 236 F with a 50/50 mix and up to 260 F with a 70% mix, and 225 with pure water.

At 200 F, you've got a lot of headroom.

The downside of antifreeze is that a 50/50 mixture has about 12% less heat transfer ability than pure water as it flows slower through a pump and has more "surface tension" to surrounding metal. The other factor worth knowing is that if you blow a head gasket - water just becomes steam in the cylinder, while glycol does nasty things to clyinder walls and pistons.

For more info, the world's greatest concentration of heat exchange experts are oldertimers in Arizona who've lived with swamp coolers! -- but it sounds to me like you're not in too bad a shape, just flush the system, blow out the radiator fins with high pressure air and refill knowning that more antifreeze in the mixture gives higher temps, yet higher boiling points.

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Bob

06-21-2003 17:03:42




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 Re: Re: 1956 60 Is Running Over 200 Degrees-Cloone in reply to Steve - IN, 06-21-2003 12:07:15  
I''ve also heard of something called "water wetter" or something like that that actually increases the ability of the coolant to transfer heat. Not sure if anybody's tried it, but on a Mopar board that I frequent there have been several instances where its use caused quite a reduction in temperature. Of course if the exterior of your radiator is dirty or plugged with chaff, etc. it's ability to transfer the heat to the air will be impaired, and no kind of coolant will do you any good.

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Clooney

06-21-2003 03:45:56




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 Re: 1956 60 Is Running Over 200 Degrees-Clooney ha in reply to JD60, 06-20-2003 20:16:17  
JD60, first, if you are using the dash gage to measure that 200° by it could be off calibration, [not uncommon on those mechanical gages]. ~200° won't really hurt it & that temp isn't uncommon on a working tractor. [plus 200° was required on the all fuelers to be able to burn the heavy distillate fuels]... If you have a 190° thermostat in it 200° isn't too far above that.

~While I'm not saying it can't be the thermostat, a sticky T-stat usually acts up earlier as the engine comes up to temp & not after it is working a while.

~Try just plain water to see if that lowers the operating temp a little, if so mix your antifreeze a little weaker. The other thing water will tell you is if you are actually running too hot...If it doesn't boil you are ok if plain water boils you are definitely running too hot & do have a problem.

~It might not hurt to check the dash gage for proper calibration.... Carefully pull the engine end temp bulb & place it in a pan of boiling water, it should show 212° or there abouts [at sea level].

~Look at [grab] the cooling fan & make sure it's not slipping on a worn out fan clutch [common problem].

~Check the obvious like radiator fin plugging & for missing fan shrouds, make sure the water pump belt is tight.

~If nothing from above seems to help or you still think it is running too hot, check the ignition timing...Late ignition timing will raise the engine running temperature considerably [especially under load]. You might also try opening the load jet in the carb a little more as a lean fuel/air mixture will also raise engine operating temperatures.....

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JD60

06-21-2003 20:29:05




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 Re: Re: 1956 60 Is Running Over 200 Degrees-Cloone in reply to Clooney , 06-21-2003 03:45:56  
Thanks Clooney!! Just to let you know my spline work is holding up. An old fella from the Thumb 2 Cylinder club gave me a few pointers also. But, early last season I had to replace the I-coil, being too cheep I bought an automotive 12 v coil....but it required/recommended an external resistor...it ran sooo gooood I didn't put one on...so finally i think it has cought up with me. It burnt out. So I replaced it with the right for the tractor. But the points are worn down but it runs. do you think that might be the problem? It seems to labor more, noticeable while harrowing the garden area in 3rd, it seemed to do better in 2nd. It gets hot just running the 7ft. finish mower, and seems to labor, popping pretty good-but not hard. And, what about engine oil, this yr. I put non-detergent SAE30 in& new filter, what do you think,should I go to SAE40? Stay away from non-D? These tractors are so elegant. I'll watch for your posts!!!Thanks!!!

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John T

06-20-2003 21:42:18




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 Re: 1956 60 Is Running Over 200 Degrees-Clooney ha in reply to JD60, 06-20-2003 20:16:17  
Hey 60 Guy, shes runnin a little hot you think huh?? First of all, you mentioned too rich on anti freeze. It's true that anti freeze doesn't transfer heat as well as just water, so while being too rich isnt as good for cooling as more like a 50 50 mix, that alone shouldnt cause her to run too hot.

What shape is the radiator in??? Are the fins clean and open to allow air to pass through or is it clogged up a lot. Blocked fins can contribute to poor cooling. Try to clean and blow her all out so air can pass through her better.

Another radiator problem can be the core passages are clogged and corroded not allowign circulation of coolant. You might luck out and give her a good drain and flush (clean out inside) and blow out the exterior fins (clean out outisde) and you will be good to go. I recommend if you chnage coolant to pre mix the 50 50 water and anti freeze solution before you add it to the radiator.

Another problem can be the water passages in the head and block area can get full of rust and crud which doenst allow good heat transfer from the iron to the coolant.

The water pump can be bad in which case it isnt pumping sufficient coolant volume.

An easy fix and somethign to check is to see if it has a thermostat and if shes indeed opening. They can go bad or get gunked up and not open as far as they should and/or not allow sufficent coolant flow through them. You can place them in a pan of water and put her on the stove and see at what temp she opens nice and wide to test her. At 212 boiling, she ought to open wide.

Other possibilities are leaky head gaskets etc whereby hot exhaust gasses get into the coolant and overheat it. Thats often accompanied by a lot of white smoke (steam) out the stack and she will use coolant.

Clean and blow out the radiator, give her a good flush and re fill, check or change the thermostat and let me know what happens. Also let me know if shes usign water and/or throwing a lot of white smoke out the stack.

Good Luck n God Bless

John T Nordhoff in Indiana

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F-I-T

06-20-2003 20:24:50




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 Re: 1956 60 Is Running Over 200 Degrees-Clooney ha in reply to JD60, 06-20-2003 20:16:17  
JD60:

I'd sure check out the thermostat. It doesn't take much for one to be reluctant to fuly open.

The two bangers I have owned and operated that had water pumps didn't seem to be too critical on the anti-freeze as the Thermo-siphon system can be.

What's the condition of your radiator ? Any dirt or chaff ?

Frank-in-Tallahassee
70D // 855



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JD60

06-21-2003 20:43:02




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 Re: Re: 1956 60 Is Running Over 200 Degrees-Cloone in reply to F-I-T, 06-20-2003 20:24:50  
Thanks for Advice!!! The rad. seems to be pretty clean. I can run for about 15-20 mintes and I shut it down for an hour or more. Last winter it got supper cold here in mid mich. so I drained and added a good amount of antifreeze. So I was wondering if that would do it...doesn't seem that should play that big a part a high temp. problem...can't be that sensitive. I ran with a I coil last yr. that required an external resistor and I didn't put one on...now it burnt out and I repalced it, but the points are pretty worn.. I wonder if the timing is off enough to cause extra heating?????

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John T

06-22-2003 06:04:49




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 Re: Re: Re: 1956 60 Is Running Over 200 Degrees-Cl in reply to JD60, 06-21-2003 20:43:02  
I doubt it, see my new post over on page 1. John T



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buickanddeere

06-22-2003 01:22:05




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 Re: Re: Re: 1956 60 Is Running Over 200 Degrees-Cl in reply to JD60, 06-21-2003 20:43:02  
Trying running with the rad cap loose to avoid building pressure. When the dash gauge makes it to 200F measure the actual coolant temp with a accurate thermometer stuck into the rad. Touch the coolant and not a metal surface. Even if the coolant temo is 200F that's ideal for clean combustion and reduced cylinder wall/ring wear.



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