timing advance mystery

~A vacuum advance diaphragm & spring retards the spark as a hill climbing load is applied so that wouldn't help you anyway..

~A vacuum advance wouldn't help your starting either,, even if you had one..

******** Lets answer your questions one at a time********

-First you ask..." The tractor also starts kind a hard - it cranks over for a while and then comes to life slowly"....>>>> Answ, unless the engine is kicking back against the starter while cranking or is backfiring while cranking then I seriously doubt you have an ignition timing problem during starting.. Your problem sounds more like a fuel restriction, choke or carb problem, or a low voltage to your coil problem.. Is the choke working correctly?... Are the batteries fully charged & cranking the engine fast enough?... Are you getting a good blue spark to the plugs during cold cranking? ..

-Second, you ask...."Would a lack of a timing advance mechanism make it start hard"....>>>> Answ, NO.. There is no correlation between hard starting & a lack of timing advance [your ignition timing should go to full retard for starting no matter what devices are used].. Now if your built in mechanical advance in the distributor is stuck or non operational you could have problems but it would probably fight the starter & kick back as it fires if that were the case..

-Third, you ask...."Could slow-down on hills and slow starting be related"....>>>> Answ, sure if both problems were caused by a low fuel flow or poor spark issue..

~More to consider..... On your hill climbing issue... Make sure your fuel filter isn't plugged, then make sure you have a good flow of fuel to & THROUGH the carb for a good 30 seconds, make sure your air filter isn't plugged [a common problem] , make sure you have good compression during cold cranking.. Even your carburetor settings could effect both starting & your hill climbing ability [tractor operation when loaded]..

~Sorry this is kind of vague but we really don't have very much to go on...

JDClooney@aol.com

1) Obviously, just cuz the picture you saw was of a distributor which happened to have a vacuum advance bulb, that doesnt mean a non vacuum advance equipped distributor now needs one due to the elec conversion.

2) Regardless if your or any distributor had either a vacuum or centrifugal or both advances, the physical mounting of a pickup coil versus points on the plate does not alter that. The faster elec switching might still call for slightly different advances. Its pickup coil (replaced points) still rotates as the base plate its mounted on rotates (due to vacuum or centrifugal forces) which, therefore, advances the time of firing at higher RPM and retards it at lower (includign starting).

3) If you have a working centrifugal advance plate, as RPM increses so does the timing advance, but as RPM's lower, the timing is more retarted closer to its start setting. You cant have much advance at cranking RPM's, cuz she will fire too soon (before piston at TDC) and kick back. However, as RPM increases, she can start the firign process earlier for more power.

YOUR SPECIFIC QUESTIONS:

Would a lack of advance make it start hard??

You dont want too much advance at starting to avoid kick back, still, if its wayyyyy too slow its harder to start. However, the advance mechanism doesnt slow timing down, it only advances it at higher RPM's. Your initial base start timing (nuttin to do with how much advance) set by distributor rotation in its mount, may need adjusting, cuz it might be tooooo slowwwww www, and if so it can affect starting. It may be more that shes initially base timed too slow affecting starting, not that she dont advance enough at RPM.

Could a slow down on hills and hard startign be related????

Its posible, but your problem could also be carburetioin or engine problems versus spark or timing ASSUMING youre still developing a good hot blue spark and have good non fouling plugs. A weak ignition in general can cause BOTH hard starts and poor performance under loads (like maybe uphill), but you might also have a carb problem like too lean under load.

SUMMARY I would first check where shes initially base timed at for starting (may be too slow) and then use of a timing light can show how she advances at RPM. In very general terms, an engine that is base start timed too slow cranks over easy, then seems to need to crank a bit and wind up before she starts. If shes base start timed too fast, she cranks hard and kicks back at the starter before she starts. Once shes start timed correct, a timing light will show how shes advancing. You might also want to check the fuel and carb to see if she needs richened up a bit under load.

Hope this helps some?? Good luck n God Bless

John T Nordhoff

1) Obviously, just cuz the picture you saw was of a distributor which happened to have a vacuum advance bulb, that doesnt mean a non vacuum advance equipped distributor now needs one due to the elec conversion.

2) Regardless if your or any distributor had either a vacuum or centrifugal or both advances, the physical mounting of a pickup coil versus points on the plate does not alter that. The faster elec switching might still call for slightly different advances. Its pickup coil (replaced points) still rotates as the base plate its mounted on rotates (due to vacuum or centrifugal forces) which, therefore, advances the time of firing at higher RPM and retards it at lower (includign starting).

3) If you have a working centrifugal advance plate, as RPM increses so does the timing advance, but as RPM's lower, the timing is more retarted closer to its start setting. You cant have much advance at cranking RPM's, cuz she will fire too soon (before piston at TDC) and kick back. However, as RPM increases, she can start the firign process earlier for more power.

YOUR SPECIFIC QUESTIONS:

Would a lack of advance make it start hard??

You dont want too much advance at starting to avoid kick back, still, if its wayyyyy too slow its harder to start. However, the advance mechanism doesnt slow timing down, it only advances it at higher RPM's. Your initial base start timing (nuttin to do with how much advance) set by distributor rotation in its mount, may need adjusting, cuz it might be tooooo slowwwww www, and if so it can affect starting. It may be more that shes initially base timed too slow affecting starting, not that she dont advance enough at RPM.

Could a slow down on hills and hard startign be related????

Its posible, but your problem could also be carburetioin or engine problems versus spark or timing ASSUMING youre still developing a good hot blue spark and have good non fouling plugs. A weak ignition in general can cause BOTH hard starts and poor performance under loads (like maybe uphill), but you might also have a carb problem like too lean under load.

SUMMARY I would first check where shes initially base timed at for starting (may be too slow) and then use of a timing light can show how she advances at RPM. In very general terms, an engine that is base start timed too slow cranks over easy, then seems to need to crank a bit and wind up before she starts. If shes base start timed too fast, she cranks hard and kicks back at the starter before she starts. Once shes start timed correct, a timing light will show how shes advancing. You might also want to check the fuel and carb to see if she needs richened up a bit under load.

Hope this helps some?? Good luck n God Bless

John T Nordhoff

1) Obviously, just cuz the picture you saw was of a distributor which happened to have a vacuum advance bulb, that doesnt mean a non vacuum advance equipped distributor now needs one due to the elec conversion.

2) Regardless if your or any distributor had either a vacuum or centrifugal or both advances, the physical mounting of a pickup coil versus points on the plate does not alter that. The faster elec switching might still call for slightly different advances. Its pickup coil (replaced points) still rotates as the base plate its mounted on rotates (due to vacuum or centrifugal forces) which, therefore, advances the time of firing at higher RPM and retards it at lower (includign starting).

3) If you have a working centrifugal advance plate, as RPM increses so does the timing advance, but as RPM's lower, the timing is more retarted closer to its start setting. You cant have much advance at cranking RPM's, cuz she will fire too soon (before piston at TDC) and kick back. However, as RPM increases, she can start the firign process earlier for more power.

YOUR SPECIFIC QUESTIONS:

Would a lack of advance make it start hard??

You dont want too much advance at starting to avoid kick back, still, if its wayyyyy too slow its harder to start. However, the advance mechanism doesnt slow timing down, it only advances it at higher RPM's. Your initial base start timing (nuttin to do with how much advance) set by distributor rotation in its mount, may need adjusting, cuz it might be tooooo slowwwww www, and if so it can affect starting. It may be more that shes initially base timed too slow affecting starting, not that she dont advance enough at RPM.

Could a slow down on hills and hard startign be related????

Its posible, but your problem could also be carburetioin or engine problems versus spark or timing ASSUMING youre still developing a good hot blue spark and have good non fouling plugs. A weak ignition in general can cause BOTH hard starts and poor performance under loads (like maybe uphill), but you might also have a carb problem like too lean under load.

SUMMARY I would first check where shes initially base timed at for starting (may be too slow) and then use of a timing light can show how she advances at RPM. In very general terms, an engine that is base start timed too slow cranks over easy, then seems to need to crank a bit and wind up before she starts. If shes base start timed too fast, she cranks hard and kicks back at the starter before she starts. Once shes start timed correct, a timing light will show how shes advancing. You might also want to check the fuel and carb to see if she needs richened up a bit under load.

Hope this helps some?? Good luck n God Bless

John T Nordhoff