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torque on A head

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1951G

08-19-2004 08:10:24




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I torqued the head on my 35 A at 125lbs for each stud except the center one at 150lbs. This is what my IT shop manual stated. However, I've got a leak under the RH cylinder between block and head. I used copper coat on the head gasket. The leak isn't bad, just a little bead that forms. I didn't want to take the head off again since I'd ruin the gasket, but is there any other way to tell where problem is? The tractor hasn't been cranked yet, so I didn't think I'd blow a head gasket just by turning the flywheel over by hand.

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Clooney

08-19-2004 17:07:53




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 Re: torque on A head in reply to 1951G, 08-19-2004 08:10:24  
1951G, it might be that Copper Coat.. I don't use it myself but have heard reports of that Copper Coat lifting the factory sprayed coating on the Deere gaskets.. I have heard this from more than one credible person so there could be some merit to it..

Personally I have used #3 Permatex for most of my life & have had extremely good results with it.. Never had a leaker that I know of & have used it on some iffy cylinder & head surfaces..

I would say as long as you have it together to do as Mike said & run it for a while then do a hot re-torque.. It will probably stop leaking after a while..

Using a leak stop in the cooling system will probably stop any slight seepage you have.. On that thermo-siphon system either install a drain valve in the lower cooling drain plug hole & let it slowly run into a large bucket while the engine is hot & running then keep pouring it back into the radiator.. OR, rig up a pump from the lower cooling drain plug hole back into the radiator neck.. Personally I use the GM leak seal pellets as they mix with the coolant without making a big mess & I have used them for years on cars & trucks with great results..

A last thought—Make sure your leak isn’t coming from around a manifold stud [especially if you used bolts to hold the manifold on instead of studs].. I have had a few of those studs leak over the years & the leak will seep out & down around the gasket seam & look just like it’s leaking from the bottom of the head gasket.. Use some white powder or foot spray to allow the leak to be seen..

Clooney

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Mike M

08-20-2004 07:02:17




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 Re: torque on A head in reply to Clooney , 08-19-2004 17:07:53  
I'm glad to hear you have had good luck with # 3 permatex.I just redid a 720 D head gasket the block is questionable but owner didn't want to go the distance to make it right.Do you coat both sides ? I could not find # 3 but found what seemed close it had a different # I can't remember it now but the bottle said holds up to 5000 psi ?



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Clooney

08-20-2004 11:22:29




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 Re: torque on A head in reply to Mike M, 08-20-2004 07:02:17  
Mike, I lightly coat both sides [Excluding the fire rings around the cylinders].. I use a shinny news paper like the special add sections so the opposite side doesn’t stick to the paper when I turn it over.. The use of Permatex does MANDATE a head re-torque as that will seat in & squish in a little..

They still sell #1 Permatex in my area but some places market it as Aviation grade Permatex..

Clooney

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Mike M

08-20-2004 12:47:15




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 Re: torque on A head in reply to Clooney, 08-20-2004 11:22:29  
That's what I did. I think the stuff I bought had a 3 didgit part number I'll have to look. I'm not so sure using those copper washers JD supplies with the set instead of lead was a wise chioce.Time will tell ?



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#3 Permatex..

08-20-2004 11:26:09




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 Re: torque on A head in reply to Clooney, 08-20-2004 11:22:29  
The #1 in the above is a mistake.. Don’t know how I wrote #1.. It should read #3..

Clooney



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Will P

08-19-2004 20:32:09




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 Re: torque on A head in reply to Clooney , 08-19-2004 17:07:53  
Clooney, I will tell you the first time I did the head on my 43B I did the same thing with the copper spray. Two years later I had a cylinder that was leaking water into it. Hard to get a hand start, started with one plug getting wet with water. You told me to use Permatex #3 on the gasket. So I tore it down and put a new gasket in with that stuff. Four years later and lots of plowing and threshing, it is still holding great. Thanks for all your help.

Will P

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Mike Y

08-20-2004 07:19:39




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 Re: torque on A head in reply to Will P, 08-19-2004 20:32:09  
So it sounds like Ptex#3 is a good idea to use when I do my A ?

Thanks



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Will P

08-20-2004 21:53:39




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 Re: torque on A head in reply to Mike Y, 08-20-2004 07:19:39  
I would again. I am putting a 49G together right now. I will be using Permatex 3 on that. But don't get it on the fire rings. Just every where else. I did all surfaces with a light coat. In fact, a little oozed out from when I torqued down the had. That oozed out bit is still there!!! She is a worker, not a beauty queen.


Will P



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1951G

08-19-2004 14:07:30




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 Re: torque on A head in reply to 1951G, 08-19-2004 08:10:24  
Thanks for the replies. No, I didn't soak the head gasket in oil or water but just sprayed the copper coat on the mating surfaces. I guess that was my first mistake. The gasket is one I got from Deere, and it has silver/aluminum look color with the black rubber in between. I'm going to try running it with the bars leak first and see what happens or doesn't happen.



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Mike M

08-19-2004 15:21:40




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 Re: torque on A head in reply to 1951G, 08-19-2004 14:07:30  
You did not make any mistakes by not soaking it as far as I'm concerned. On the gaskets they sell now it doesn't seem to matter. Sometimes you get a seeper and sometimes not. This is a thermo siphon system and it will be hard for the bars leak to circulate unless you work it hard and long. I have not tried one yet but some of the pullers are using gaskets by Lubbock Gasket out of Texas with good results,they will custom make any gasket if you send them a sample.

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Mike M

08-19-2004 09:56:26




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 Re: torque on A head in reply to 1951G, 08-19-2004 08:10:24  
Did you use a laminated type head gasket ,the type JD sells. I hate those things sometimes you can do everything right and still have seapage between the laminations. I have a late B that seeped after sitting awhile and dried up when running no better after retorque put some bar's leak in it and did some plowing this seems to of stopped the seapage. I used to have good luck soaking them in water,but this was on the old type that had asbestoes in them the center looked white not the gray ones sold today. The white ones sometimes you could hear them sucking up the water the gray ones doesn't seem to help them any so I stopped doing it. If you think everything was right,flat surfaces ,clean,stud threads cleaned so they don't bind up. Then I would fire it up get it good and warm then retorque it. then put in some bar's leak and work it good if it gets worse then go back in.

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Mike Y

08-19-2004 09:10:59




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 Re: torque on A head in reply to 1951G, 08-19-2004 08:10:24  
I'm getting ready to do the same job on my 50 A.

Have asked around alot as to the proper process,ie with or without sealer, (most said without but I too have used the copper spray in past non tractor applications with good luck so I'm still on the fence about that, figure it can't hurt ?)correct torque etc..

Have been told in many cases sometimes gaskets weep a bit at first install but to run up some good hot/cold cycles and retorque and most times they seal right up.

Was also told to soak the gasket in hot water or oil before install..did you do that ?

Hope this helps..

Good luck

Mike Y ..CT

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