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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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Do i need a bigger pully on generator?

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Jim Nauert

10-26-2004 18:10:57




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I have a 420w that has been converted to 12 volt. The original gen was rewound for 12 volt has a 12v batt. and 12v reg lights ect. It seems to take alot of rpms to get it to charge. I hate to run the thing that fast will a bigger pully on the gen help this or could it be something else.




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buickanddeere

10-26-2004 21:41:58




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 Re: Do i need a bigger pully on generator? in reply to Jim Nauert, 10-26-2004 18:10:57  
Check the voltage back at the battery terminals at fast idle. Crank the regulator up to 13.8 to 14.2V. Odds are it's way low. Don't be afraid to rev the engine. Mother Deere says in the manual for a reason, to run them at full rated load and at 80% average load.



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txblu

10-28-2004 13:03:56




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 Re: Do i need a bigger pully on generator? in reply to buickanddeere, 10-26-2004 21:41:58  
Some thinkin out loud.

Tryin to remember my schoolin days. Generator output is # of poles x rpm's as I recall. So to go from 6 to 12, for a given rpm,you'd have to have another armature, or double the number of pole contacts at the brushes and wind accordingly. Don't know if that's practical; maybe so, never done it nor heard of it done.

Obviously, the output is proportional to rpms so the higher they are the higher the output..... .not much output at idle like an alternator has.

The smaller pulley uppin the rpm's would help.

Think amps on old gennies of the day were around 25a as stated. But if it was 25 amps at 6 volts, yer ain't gonna get 25 amps at 12v.

Course, amps squared x winding r = heat loss and to get twice the wire (to double the poles) in the same box would require smaller diameter wire.

That's twice the power output for the same physical size and I'd bet heat would eat you up; heat of the losses in the gen.

Course if VR is low doesn't matter, but is it the genny or the reg that's low?

Mark

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buickanddeere

10-29-2004 05:51:01




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 Re: Do i need a bigger pully on generator? in reply to txblu, 10-28-2004 13:03:56  
The beauty of increasing the voltage is that the I2R losses stay the same even though output power has been doubled. So no problem for the armature and brushes heating. There will be a little more brush sparking but 12V is still a very low voltage. At 6 or 12V the resistance is the same and the same 20amp current limit. The field winding will disipate 4 times the heat as it's voltage and current are both doubled W= VxA or I2R. However it's magnetic field strength will be doubled (amps x turns). The duty cycle will be reduced and heating should be a problem. If the engine is just idled around and the generator field is full time energized trying it's best. It will run a little warmer from making more heat and having less cooling. Then again 24W or so on the field is weenie little amount of heat. The 250V DC motors at work will spark a little at any time and more if the commutator is dirty and the loads are heavy. The non electrical types (operators) freak when they see any sparks and think the motor is on fire. Then they have the equipment shut down for inspection and yet another set of brushes. We have to bed the brushes with emery cloth to match the commutator's curve. Otherwise they won't run long enough to get worn to shape before being replaced yet again. Better than ruining the commutator on a 400HP DC motor however. I would like to have the millions of dollars wasted on planning,parts and labour on these eight motors over the past 30 years. Voltage is proportional to field excitation strength, number of windings and rpm ( number of magnetic poles cut per minute).

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Kevin L

10-26-2004 20:56:07




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 Re: Do i need a bigger pully on generator? in reply to Jim Nauert, 10-26-2004 18:10:57  
also remember a generator will take long to recharge a battery, it will not produce as much current as an alternator will it low rpm or at the rated rpm. Not sure what max is but it's probably around 25 to 30 and may not be that..



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John T

10-26-2004 19:56:34




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 Re: Do i need a bigger pully on generator? in reply to Jim Nauert, 10-26-2004 18:10:57  
Jim, some people do indeed install a SMALLER pulley on the Generator which makes it turn faster, but keep the belt good n tight and not glazed also helps. If the Gens in good shape with good brushes and tight hold down springs she ought to keep up with lights and the coil draw.

John T



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Bob

10-26-2004 18:20:23




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 Re: Do i need a bigger pully on generator? in reply to Jim Nauert, 10-26-2004 18:10:57  
A larger pulley on the generator will SLOW IT DOWN!



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