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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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JD 40S Cranking It Works!

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Jim in NC

01-27-2005 04:06:38




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I have been planning for sometime to move the ground wire from the dash area closer to the starter mounting area. What a huge difference! The tractor spins much faster when cranking. It will get a good test this weekend with cold, snow, and ice on the way.




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Clooney

01-27-2005 09:48:43




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 Re: JD 40S Cranking It Works! in reply to Jim in NC, 01-27-2005 04:06:38  
Jim, that does make a BIG difference on those Dubuque’s.. The way the original ground is it must pass through those sheetmetal connections & then to the chassis through those (usually) corroded lower attachment bolts.. I have found a lot of Dubuque’s with a poor ground it that area..

Clooney



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F-I-T

01-27-2005 07:37:29




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 Re: JD 40S Cranking It Works! in reply to Jim in NC, 01-27-2005 04:06:38  
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Jim:

I routed the ground cable to one of the starter mounting bolts on my VAC Case and that really made a difference in starter cranking speed as well. I think shortening the path and at the same time giving it a good mechanical connection is a good idea.

Frank

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John T

01-27-2005 07:59:22




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 Re: JD 40S Cranking It Works! in reply to F-I-T, 01-27-2005 07:37:29  
Frank, that lil Case is cute as a bugs ear, I love your detail work, bring it to Florida Flywheelers n show it to me????

Yeppers, when youre working with only 6 volts to begin with, you cant afford to loose any voltage drops across high resistance cables or connections or sheet metal paths or multiple metal to metal junctions etc., which is why 00 Gauge cables and a ground connection dead on the starter as you placed it is a darn good plan.

Take care n stay warm

John T

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drexel fuller

01-27-2005 06:40:37




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 Re: JD 40S Cranking It Works! in reply to Jim in NC, 01-27-2005 04:06:38  
I have 40 wide front in .I think its about1952.I have replaced the sw,points,condenser,wires,coil rotor button,distributor cap.I have fire everywhere except on the plug wires when it turns over.Do you have any ideas.



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Clooney

01-27-2005 10:14:14




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 Re: JD 40S Cranking It Works! in reply to drexel fuller, 01-27-2005 06:40:37  
drexel fuller, with all those parts it should spark shouldn’t it..

You say…

Quote:--“ I have replaced the sw,points,condenser,wires,coil rotor button,distributor cap.I have fire everywhere except on the plug wires when it turns over:”

--I presume by “I have fire everywhere” that you mean power everywhere?

Lets start at then beginning so nothing gets missed..

**With the ign switch turned on do you have power to the ign switch’s side of the coil (if not, check your dash fuse or the wire on the (L) terminal at your voltage regulator)..

**Then with it cranking & ign switch on, does a test light placed on the distributor side (small post) of the coil flash off & on while cranking? (if so you are good so far,,,, if not suspect points, or condenser grounded or open.. If light stays on ALL the time suspect improper points gap, or broken wire, or poor distributor ground (a poor distributor ground is not uncommon on those Dubuque’s so check that) ….. If the light is off all the time suspect a grounded wire, grounded condenser, or grounded points stud..

**If the light flashes off & on when cranked then pull the coil wire from the coil & hold it about 1/8 from the engine block & crank it with ign switch on.. If you don’t have a spark there suspect a bad coil.. If you do have spark there & not at the plugs suspect a bad or incorrect dist cap, or cracked or carbon tracked rotor,, or bad plug wires..

**If all the parts seem good & still no spark at the plugs,, pull the spark plugs & place the tractor in high gear,, then with the tractor in high gear.. With the ign switch on & holding the coil wire within 1/8” of the engine block, roll the tractor slowly forward until you get a spark on the coil wire. Stop moving the tractor AS SOON as you get a spark,, then see if the spark rotor lines up with a dist cap’s wire tower (if not make sure the cap locator clip is in the correct place).. If still no line up, suspect an incorrect cap or rotor.. Then slowly roll the tractor forward again until you see the next spark,, at that time the rotor MUST line up with the other cap tower.

Any questions, or anything to add to the above just post back..

It helps to print this out & take it with you to the tractor & follow down the list..

Clooney

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Re: jd 40s cranking itwor

01-29-2005 12:16:29




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 Re: JD 40S Cranking It Works! in reply to Clooney, 01-27-2005 10:14:14  
mr. clooney: With the ign.sw on as I say there is current at the starter ,at the coil,at the points.I used a voltmeter instead of a light.I have also turned over the motor with the distributor cap detached from the distributor.I heard it arc.With the cap back on the distributor and a sparkplug taken out of the head ,with sparkplug wire plugged into the distributor and the plug attached to the wire.I turn the ign on and turn it over can"t see it fireYou did say the small post on the distributor that is someting i will check. Thank you so very much.drexel fuller

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Mike M

01-27-2005 09:42:17




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 Re: JD 40S Cranking It Works! in reply to drexel fuller, 01-27-2005 06:40:37  
Did you use wires with wire in them ? Make sure you don't get ahold of a set of those carbon fiber core type made for cars. You might have a wrong dist. cap . I once worked on a JD 520 that someone put a new cap on turned out that the holes for the wires were in the wrong spot.I went and looked at a known running tractor to verify this. I think I had a cap for a 40,you may have gotten one for a 520 ?

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John T

01-27-2005 07:53:24




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 Re: JD 40S Cranking It Works! in reply to drexel fuller, 01-27-2005 06:40:37  
Drexel, when you say you have fire everywhere EXCEPT on the plug wires, can you explain that a bit further?? If you remove the coil wire from the distributor (leaving coil end intact) and place its bare end to within 1/8 inch or so from tractor steel n turn her on n crank her over, does she spark from the coil wires end to the frame????? ??


(A) TIMING ISSUES

If the coil wire is firing per the above, the coil n points n condensor are okay, maybe youre just not getting the fire to the correct plug/wire at the correct time (like wrong distributor cap or mounting or distributors out of time??)

If the coil wire end fires BUT NOT THE PLUGS OR PLUG WIRES (regardless if at right time) the coil n points n condensor are okay BUT you have a cap or distributor or plug or plug wire problem. If the plug wires fire BUT NOT the plugs if attached and sides grounded, THE PLUG IS BAD.

ORRRRR RR maybe the plugs n plug wires are all firing, BUT AT THE WRONG TIME OR TO THE WRONG CYLINDER caused by an incorrect cap or mounting or else the distributors out of time or you have the plug wires reversed????? ????? ????

(B) SHES TIMED RIGHT IFFFFF FFFFF F

If the distributors in right n timed right and the correct caps installed, when the number ONE cylinder comes up to TDC on its Compression Power Stroke (can tell by having plug out and feeling when shes coming up on compression) and gets to TDC, the points should be open on the leading cam lobes high cam, and the rotor tip should be lined up with the caps leading terminal which has a plug wire to that number one cylinder !!!!! Then 180 of flywheel (90 of distributor) rotation later, the points should be again on high cam (lagging lobe) and the rotor tip lined up with the other lagging terminal tower wired to the number 2 cylinder.

If the coils never firing at all

(C) TROUBLESHOOTING FOR NO FIRE AT ALL

1) THE VERY FIRST THING YOU GOTTA HAVE is voltage to be present on the coils high supply (NOT to distributor) terminal when you turn the Ignition switch ON. If not she cant ever fire, but in the event the ign switch or circuit/wire down to the coil or any Ballast Resistor (but a 6 volt tractor dont) is bad or open, you can HOT WIRE it by jumping a hot ungrounded battery voltage source to the coils high input supply (NOT to distributor) side n see if she runs then???? If she fires hot wired, you could have a bad ignition switch (That can happen, when Ignition is on, the switches IGN terminal must turn hot),,,,, ,or an open Ballast (if it had one, but 6 volt tractors dont) or a bad/open wire from the ignition switch to the coils high side input terminal.

If the switch is good, if you turn the ignition switch on and place a test lamp on the coils high (NOT to distributor) terminal SHE MUST LIGHT UP. If not again, look for an open Ballast Resistor (if it has one, but 6 volt tractors dont) or bad/open wires from the switches IGN output down to the coil (or ballast if it had one).

2a) When the ign switch is turned on, voltage should appear on the coils high input side. That would be 12 volts on a 12 volt non external ballasted system, or around 6 volts on a 6 volt system.

2b) To insure the coils low voltage primary winding is not bad/open, use an ohmmeter and measure its DC resistance between its lil + and -terminals. If its an open circuit (no continuity) its bad/open and will NOT work. It should measure around 1.25 to 2 ohms or so if its a 6 volt coil and maybe 2.5 to 3.5 if its a 12 volt internally ballasted coil. NOTE CAUTION have all leads and any voltage source attached to the coil for this simple primary winding continuity test. 3) Next, place your voltmeter or test lamp over on the coils other low to distributor terminal side, turn her on and crank the engine over.

4) A test lamp there should flash ON (when points are open) and OFF (when points are closed)

5a) If the lamp never comes on there, the coils primary is bad/open,,,,, ,,,,or the points are never opening,,,,, ,,,or theres a shorted/bad condensor (remove its lead to points and see if lamp comes on, if so, bad shorted condensor or its wiring),,,,, ,,or the points wire is shorted,,,,, ,,or the distributirs side pass thru stud is grounded (use ohm meter to test that),,,,, ,,,or the points may have a shorted spring.

5b) If the lamp never goes off as engines cranked, the points are not closing,,,,, ,,or the wire or circuit is missing from the distributor to the points,,,,,or the distributors not well grounded to the tractor.

She cant fire the coil unless its low side is getting a conductive ground return path via closed points and then the circuit is open when the points open.

Be sure the condensor or its wiring is NOT shorted out and see if the lite comes on (when points open) with the condensor disconnected. If removing the condensor makes her spark, replace the condensor.

SUMMARY

Be sure the points are closing fully and open on high cam and ARE NOT BURNED OR PITTED OR CARBONED UP BADLY,,,,, ,theres voltage present on distributors high side at all times when ignitions on (or its a bad switch or open ballast or bad wiring to col),,,,, ,voltage on coils low side flashes on and off as distributor is cranked,,,,, ,,,condensors not bad/shorted,,,,, ,,no shorts in wires to points and no shorts in pass thru side out distributor stud,,,,, ,,coil has continuituy.

Good Luck n God Bless, post back any questions and your findings and any questions.

John T in Indiana

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