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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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4010 diesel miss at high RPM's

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4010

06-07-2005 06:56:13




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When I run tractor under no load at high RPM's going down the road it will occasionally miss, or pop. If you gently apply the brake and make the motor work it clears up. What does this mean, and what can be done to clear it up?




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HTR

06-07-2005 19:40:44




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 Re: 4010 diesel miss at high RPM's in reply to 4010, 06-07-2005 06:56:13  
This a timing problem, that is common on the 4010. The original injection pump, on the 4010, was a load advance pump, and timed at ten degrees before top dead center. There were some performance problems with these pump.

John Deere offered a partial pay program to update the pumps to a speed advance pump, that timed at about six degrees, and advanced timing about six degrees with increased speed of the engine. Problem was they didn't get it quiet right.

With a little wear in the cam timing gear, oil pump drive gear on the cam, and oil pump gear, you can't get the pump turned enough to get the proper advance.

Try loosening the mounting nuts, and turn the pump in as far as you can, and still move the stop lever and cable. Not kosher, but back the trimmer screw out a couple turns to get a little more advance. I have cut a new key seat in the oil pump drive gear that drives the injection pump. There is a later finer tooth cam and oil pump gear.

If somebody tried to time the pump on top dead center like the 4020, they will flutter bad at top end no load.

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msb

06-07-2005 19:55:16




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 Re: 4010 diesel miss at high RPM's in reply to HTR, 06-07-2005 19:40:44  
HTr You are forgetting the original 4010 injection pump was a fixed timing pump set at 14 degrees.It had no timing advance.If it were my tractor,I would pull and check the injectors first.Sounds like a sticky pintle valve in an injector.The extra fuel that a load calls for is probably freeing the valve.



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HTR

06-08-2005 21:37:35




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 Re: 4010 diesel miss at high RPM's in reply to msb, 06-07-2005 19:55:16  
MSG, I am not forgetting that the original pump, on the 3010 and 4010, was a load advance pump. I think you are forgetting the basics of how the D series pump works. If you had said that the pump has no mechanical or hydro-mechanical advance, you would have been right. If you had stopped to think before you tried to make me look like a dunce, you may, or may not have known, why and how the load advance pump, advances, and retards the timing during various loads and speeds.

MSG should know this, but if anybody wants a fuzzy idea of how it works, I will try to explain. First you have to know a little about how the pump works, and is designed. There is a vane type transfer pump that sits on top of the head of the pump, and the rotor that turns in the head, and drives the transfer pump. The bottom of the rotor has two opposed bores that the pumping plungers/pistons ride in. They have shoes and rollers to follow the lobes of the cam ring that they ride in. The lobes in the cam ring are opposed, so that as the rotor turns in the cam ring, both pumping plungers are shoved in at the same time. This forces fuel up through the center of the rotor shaft,through the delivery valve, and is routed to the injectors. By the way , there is about 90 millionths of an inch clearance between the plunger bores and the plungers.

Now for how the timing is advanced and retarded in the load advance pump. The two things to keep in mind, the fuel is inlet metered to the pumping plungers, and the ramps in the cam ring, are basically tapered up to the high point of the lobes. At slow idle, the throttle position and governor linkage tell the metering valve we only need a very small amount of fuel. The metering valve allows the small amount of fuel, at transfer pump pressure, to the inlet side of the pumping plungers forcing them out a very small amount. As the rotor and rollers approach the ramps on the cam ring lobes, the pumping plungers are not out far enough to make contact with the ramps until near the top of the lobe. This delivers a small amount of fuel, for slow idle, at the retarded timing. When the throttle is pulled down, and under a load, the governor tells the metering valve we need all we can get. The metering valves opens, and allows the the plungers to fully charge. This shoves the plungers out until the leaf spring catches them. As the rollers approach the cam ring lobes, the plungers are out far enough to make contact with the beginning of the ramp, and start injection at the advanced timing. This is why they called them load advance pumps.

The speed advance pump works the same way, only it has the hydraulic piston to rotate the cam ring some to gain a better advance retard range.

While we are nit picking each other, the 4010 didn't use pintle injectors. They used a valve body with a heavy needle valve, and a tip with holes.

With his description of his problem, I will give you one hundred to one odds, that lack of enough timing advance is his problem. That is what the speed advance change over took care of when every thing was almost new. They just didn't get it quiet right, or allow for 45 years of wear.

You were right about the original load advance pump setting at 14 degrees, it was the 3010 that set at 10 degrees. It has been over 40 years since we were working on this problem. I forgot.

You knew all of that. You were just in too big of a hurry to show me I didn't know what I was talking about.

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HTR

06-08-2005 21:54:58




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 Re: 4010 diesel miss at high RPM's in reply to HTR, 06-08-2005 21:37:35  
OOps! That should have been address to MSB not MSG. Another mistake on my part



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txgrn

06-07-2005 16:25:19




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 Re: 4010 diesel miss at high RPM's in reply to 4010, 06-07-2005 06:56:13  
Probably time for a little pump or injector work.

Nothing else to cause that problem. Being intermittent, I'd say the high dollar problem...the pump...sorry.

Mark



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