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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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Valve guide replacement

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Jim Nauert

07-24-2005 03:55:32




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Has anyone ever changed out there own valve guides. There pretty cheap to buy is it a doit yourself job.Are they pressed in?




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buickanddeere

07-24-2005 13:08:44




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 Re: Valve guide replacement in reply to Jim Nauert, 07-24-2005 03:55:32  
New guides require grinding the valve seats, not lapping. The new guides never line up quite where the old ones did. On a diesel,always install new valve seats and grind just enough to true them up. Old guides are too short after being reground. The sinking of valve /seat drops the compresison ratio causing poorer cold weather starting.



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F-I-T

07-24-2005 13:18:58




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 Re: Valve guide replacement in reply to buickanddeere, 07-24-2005 13:08:44  
C'mon B&B....the "guide" doesn't get too short.....

the valve head receeds.

You need a nap! :) HA!

On that note, SOMETIMES, if the seats are not too bad so that you don't have to grind much to get them clean, you can gain just as much "mass" if you install new valves. The thickness of the valve head land is pretty thick compared to the 50+ year old valves on their 6th or 7th regrind.

On my 70, I installed new seats, guides, vales, springs and keepers! Everything was worn to max. So for only $50/valve, $20 each for guides, !5-20 each for springs, and a bit for keepers, $150 of shop time, (let's see, carry the 2) I had an up to snuff Diesel head rebuilt to factory specs, including face grinding on the back side and the manifold deck for about $550. But buddy she fires on the first one up. A new rebore ($250), injector and pump rebuild ($350), new pistons
($800), rebuilt transfar pump ($150) didn't hurt either.

Frank

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buickanddeere

07-24-2005 15:46:57




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 Re: Valve guide replacement in reply to F-I-T, 07-24-2005 13:18:58  
Darn, a typo or a Freudian Slip.The wife is tall at 6'1" and she guides everything I do. I'm going to have to lock the door and wear ear plugs so her screaching isn't so loud while I'm on the net and trying to hunt and peck type Intended to say seat and valve can get too short after grinding.



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Jim Nauert

07-24-2005 10:39:54




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 Re: Valve guide replacement in reply to Jim Nauert, 07-24-2005 03:55:32  
Just as i thought best left to the professional. Thanks for the advice.



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Gpower

07-24-2005 18:20:08




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 Re: Valve guide replacement in reply to Jim Nauert, 07-24-2005 10:39:54  
A good air hammer with the right tool works well also. I've made several tools to fit inside the guide and with a shoulder to push on the edge; and the air hammer does a nice even job of pushing the guide out. Works well on bearings also, by using the air hammer on the shaft, it will usually walk the bearing right off the shaft with no problems. Just have to ahve the right tool in the hammer, and no problems.

GP

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Mike M

07-24-2005 11:01:09




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 Re: Valve guide replacement in reply to Jim Nauert, 07-24-2005 10:39:54  
Those are very easy to press out if you have a press. I just have an el cheapo 10 or 12 ton ?from Harbor Freight and it has served me very well over the years from valve guides to gov. parts. Before I had a press I even did some with hardened allthread and heavy plate and pulled them out.Much better to spend $100.00 and get a press !

It's also hard to pick a good "professional" shop as most are not at all familar with the JD 2 cyl.or have big enough equipment.I had a fellow bring me a cyl. head for an A that was just worked on at an automotive shop. He suspected problems and we found some when we pulled out the valves.They never ground the seats on the intake ones.I don't think they had stones big enough. I'd ask around with the local collectors and see who they had good luck with.

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Pat Browning

07-24-2005 10:54:47




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 Re: Valve guide replacement in reply to Jim Nauert, 07-24-2005 10:39:54  
Yes Jim -- reworking of basic engine parts demands far too much tooling and expertise for the average fellow, and when done by a pro is surprisingly not that costly -- I might add, F-I-T's response on 7/23 to your "smoke show" post gives some good tips technically to isolate low compression problems in these old combustion engines. They are basic, time-tested, and quite easy to apply. In an engine now 65 years of age, most every part will contribute to deceased perfomance, and the extent of repair will be determined by your intended use of the tractor. If like most, you want one that starts, idles & runs smoothly, doesn't smoke or throw oil, and hopefully don't leak oil from too many places. Be Blessed, and 'Love' that "H"

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F-I-T

07-24-2005 12:15:02




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 Re: Valve guide replacement in reply to Pat Browning, 07-24-2005 10:54:47  
One thing that I hear quite a often is that some how the old two cylinder engines were less precise if not somewhat crude in design, but that's really not the case. For their size and date of manufacture, they were machined to as close if not better tolerances than most automotive engines of the day. I know from the farmers/relatives who bought them new that the engines, even when maintained pretty well never seemed to get the same attention to valve systems and re-bores as their automotive equivalents of the days of their use. In some areas it was pretty normal to just slap a set of rings in and lap the valves every other spring. Gaskets were cheap, rings were $10 a set, and lapping compound was 50 cents.

Now at 65 years, unless you find an engine that was just plain babied and oiled and fogged for storage every winter, you might as well count on heavy reconditioning if you want it come even close to the original operating parameters. 65 years of even 50 hours a year is a lot of time on moving parts, especially those that were lubricated by drip and splash.

Frank

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Pat Browning

07-24-2005 12:45:51




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 Re: Valve guide replacement in reply to F-I-T, 07-24-2005 12:15:02  
Roger that -- I have to just sit back in awe when reflecting on the high quality mecahnical engineering brought forth during the late 20's and the 30's -- a period of time when things really were pretty rough in this country economically. Antique tractor pulls are evidence sufficient to the strength of transmission and final drive sections of these old tractors -- and enough cannot be said about engine design during this period. Thanks Frank.

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F-I-T

07-24-2005 13:10:42




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 Re: Valve guide replacement in reply to Pat Browning, 07-24-2005 12:45:51  
Well, labor was cheaper back then, so they forged more often, not to mention the love all the manufactures had with the newly developed Vanadium Steels.

I have always been in awe of the precision of a roller or ball bearing, and the relative low cost of such a device. I know they can get pricey today, but man! $5 or $6 for a gadget that is true when built new to +/- a few millionths?

Unbelieveable!

Frank

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Pat Browning

07-24-2005 14:04:41




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 Re: Valve guide replacement in reply to F-I-T, 07-24-2005 13:10:42  
Frank -- think for a bit -- of the importance factories making bearings had in WW2! You are dead right -- bearing design played a mojor role in the overall mechanical design patterns. How sweet it is!



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F-I-T

07-24-2005 17:03:53




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 Re: Valve guide replacement in reply to Pat Browning, 07-24-2005 14:04:41  
Oh, I don't have to think. My Dad spent several of his 25 B-24 missions out of Italy going after ball bearing plants.



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F-I-T

07-24-2005 07:08:12




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 Re: Valve guide replacement in reply to Jim Nauert, 07-24-2005 03:55:32  
Jim:

To answer your questions:

Yes. The guides are pressed in. Yes, I have changed them myself. But I generally let the shop do that when they are reconditioning the head during the valve job portion of the work.

To press one out you'll need a fairly stout press, though I will confess that I once pressed some out of a "B" head using a 12 ton hydraulic jack and the rear end of our 4020D.

If you have a press it's not a bad job, but generally it's not worth "tooling up for" for the few you come up against.

Frank

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Pat Browning

07-24-2005 05:20:07




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 Re: Valve guide replacement in reply to Jim Nauert, 07-24-2005 03:55:32  
Hi Jim -- Not knowing a person's readily-available shop equipment, nor what skills he/she brings to bear here -- it is very hard to provide advise to someone in valve guide renewal. But in general, when opening up an engine in need of work, I would recommend taking your engine head -- block too for that matter -- to a local engine rebuilder/machinist -- at least for evaluation if not also the renewal work. You may end up fetching some parts for him like valves and/or guides. He will need the base engine data as is found in your tractor's Service Manual -- as a standard or guide concerning various measurements that he will verify for you. He will have the skills & equipment to enable you to leave the premises with engine parts that meet minimum performance standards -- no looking back. - PatB

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