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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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Starting with pony motor

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BillThePuttPuttVirgin

10-11-2005 17:13:11




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How do you do this??? I have been given the task of getting several "restored" JDs running again. I have been successful so far with the M, H and a couple of the gas/ dual fuel tractors that have electric or manual start. Now I confront a couple R models, a 60, and an 80. Both R's seem to have a hole in the top left corner of the instrumemt panel that I belive has IGN stamped below it. But there is no switch, light or anything else. To the right of that is the starter, below the throttle and choke. How do I turn the ignition to the pony motor on and off??? I couldn't even find the wires to the distributor to trace back to some kind of switch. How do I engage the pony motor to start the diesel? There are PLENTY of levers and such to try, the concept of safety makes me ask. I think it is the 80 that has a clearly marked ignition switch. I don't recall, but maybe the 60 has a key? I looked at too many today including an 830 (24v electric start - yippie) If someone could help me, I'd sure appreciate it!

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BillThePuttPuttVirgin

10-12-2005 18:05:06




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 Re: Starting with pony motor - update- batting 500 in reply to BillThePuttPuttVirgin, 10-11-2005 17:13:11  
Thanks for the help guys. I can't believe I lucked out and found this place and you people!

One of the 2 Rs started for me today. The other didn't. I got the pony running but when cranking the diesel all I do is fill the shed with smoke from the exhaust. Since there is smoke, I am thinking unburnt fuel. I found the valve(?) above the sediment bowl pointing(?) toward OFF. I pulled the bowl and eventually got the valve turned to run and fuel(?) runs forth. I left the sediment bowl loose till it overflowed. But still the same smoking exhaust with no startup. I wonder if it was OFF if some lines need bled, but the smoke makes me think it is gettin fuel that it just can't ignite. The fuel doesn't really smell like diesel fuel I'm used to, but doesn't reak the way stale gas would. Can't think it's kerosene because the tractor was supposedly driven to where it sits. However I find myself wanting to insure it is getting fresh diesel. Can I just fill the sediment bowl with fresh fuel and crank it? Would I need to bleed any lines?

Any and all advice is appreciated. You folks have been a big help.

I am also putting out a fresh post about stuck clutch on 830 and problems with a 60.

Thanks again! -bill

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DRL

10-12-2005 18:56:54




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 Re: Starting with pony motor - update- batting 500 in reply to BillThePuttPuttVirgin, 10-12-2005 18:05:06  
Well congratulations on getting one of them started! I believe that I would drain the fuel tank and start with fresh diesel. You didn't say how long these have been sitting. Diesel probably has a longer shelf life than gasoline, but still can get old, moisture and bacteria in it. You had the right idea about draining the sediment bowl. You may have gotten some air in the system when you took the bowl off, and depending on a few other things, you may have sucked air into the system when the valve was turned to the "off" position. I have a link that hopefully will work for you that shows a pic of the three bleeder screws and the order to bleed them. The valve has three positions. Run, Off, and Prime. Set the valve to Prime and remove each of these bleeders one at a time in the order shown in the pic. Keep each one open until you get a steady stream of fuel without any air bubbles. Be sure to turn the fuel valve back to run when finished. You may also check to be sure that the decompression linkage is working freely and is not keeping the exhaust valves slightly open causing you to loose compression. Don't crank the main engine with the throttle forward for more than 15 seconds. You will wash the cylinder walls with fuel and you will loose compression and lubrication that way. If it doesn't start, push in the stop button on the throttle lever and pull the lever all the way back. Pull the decompression lever back and motor the main engine for a while to allow the cylinder walls to lubricate. If the outside temp is 50 or below and the diesel engine is pretty worn, it may not want to start very well. Let the pony run for a while to warm up the intake and main engine. So, in a nutshell, start with new fuel, bleed the system, be sure the decompression linkage is free, and try in the warmest part of the day. You may end up changing the filters, but I don't think so, and would do only at a last resort. HTH

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BillThePuttPuttVirgin

10-13-2005 15:51:05




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 Re: Starting with pony motor - update- batting 500 in reply to DRL, 10-12-2005 18:56:54  
Thanks again! What a great resource. This will allow me to do what I want. I really appreciate your help! I'll post my progress. I didn't get to work on them today, and I'd like to say I'll get to tomorrow, but, I can never predict what will happen at work. Thanks again! -bill



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DRL

10-13-2005 21:12:56




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 Re: Starting with pony motor - update- batting 500 in reply to BillThePuttPuttVirgin, 10-13-2005 15:51:05  
Bill,
I sent a private email last night, hope you got it. If you didn't, among other things, I wanted to alert you to the fact that the entire R service manual is available on the Two-Cylinder Diesel.com website. It is in PDF format and will take a while to download, but worth it if you are going to work on these tractors. Read your followup on another thread about the 60. Don't know if you are working on these machines for the owner on a one time basis, or were hired to maintain his collection on an ongoing basis. If it is not a one time deal, I strongly recommend getting the owners, parts, and service manuals for these tractors as well as any other machines you may be working on. Might look around and see if they are there already. With the experience you have, you know the value of having this reference material. I don't think that the owner would mind springing a few bucks for these resources if it meant that you could keep his collection in top notch condition. All of these resources are available from John Deere. We don't mind your questions, and will help as much as we can, but nothing, short of a JD two cylinder mechanic looking over your shoulder, is better than having the book in front of you. There will still be questions, but fewer of them. Keep us updated. Might want to start a new thread in order to keep it on the front page. Just be careful, one day you might find one or two of these green and yellow machines in your shed.

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BillThePuttPuttVirgin

10-17-2005 15:43:08




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 Re: Starting with pony motor - update- batting 500 in reply to DRL, 10-13-2005 21:12:56  
Wow. Thanks for the info. I hope there are other manuals there too. Service manuals especially. The Owners Manuals are not that helpful. For instance, I found the one for the 4020. The start button was not making anything happen. The solenoid did not even click. The Owners manual had a pic and told what color wires went where but no info as to what they were for, or where they were coming from.

The service manuals I'm sure will be much more helpful.

Thanks again and HOW DO YOU DO THE PRIVATE EMAIL??

I was hired to take care of his automobile collection. I have solved some long-time and previously "unsolvable" problems for him which makes me feel good and him VERY HAPPY. He knew I grew up on a small family farm and asked me to start taking care of the tractors too. He has noticed how personally I take my work successes and has come to terms with the fact that I don't make guesses and just try something to see if it works. NO ONE is all-knowing, and he has seen me persue answers and information on the things that I admittedly don't know. He has recognized that even though I didn't take the job to do this, it drives me nuts to see these sitting around as decorations which to me is basically neglect. I want to see them all running and functioning RIGHT. My predecessors haven't done that, and maybe I am some kind of egomaniac, but I want the glory (even if it is just from myself) of achieving that goal.

Thanks again for the info/input/and support. I'm doing my best not to let you guys or these tractors down.

-bill

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DRL

10-17-2005 20:38:46




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 Re: Starting with pony motor - update- batting 500 in reply to BillThePuttPuttVirgin, 10-17-2005 15:43:08  
You ask "How do you do the private email?" On your first posts, you put your email address in the email slot. At the top right of the post as it appears on the board, there is two options: reply, and send email. I clicked on the send email, and typed a message that was sent directly to you if you put your correct email address in the slot. I do not put my email address in because spammers seem to skim emails off of boards like this, and my mailbox gets overloaded with all kinds of junk. If you received my email, you can feel free to email me by replying directly to my original email. If you didn't receive my email, but still want to exchange emails you can send a message to ink61@yahoo.com.

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DRL

10-12-2005 16:22:59




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 Re: Starting with pony motor in reply to BillThePuttPuttVirgin, 10-11-2005 17:13:11  
On the R the decompression lever is on the right, engage the pony motor with the one on the left. Also depends on whether you have an early or late R. Mine is an early one and has a throttle rod. The later ones did not have a throttle, but did have a fuel shutoff on the dash. Like was said before, the pony has a mag, so there is no ignition switch. On the early models, you pull the throttle out all the way, then pull the starter rod and give it some choke as needed until it starts. On the later ones, you turn on the gas at the dash and follow the rest of the procedure as the same. After the pony has warmed up, you then go to the two long levers on the left hand side. Pull the right hand lever first, this is the decompression lever. Then slowly ease the left lever back to engage the pony to the main engine. Hold both levers back until you see the oil pressure for the main engine come up. Release the right hand lever and push the throttle for the diesel on the steering shaft forward. If you are lucky, the diesel engine will start. After the diesel starts, release the left hand lever to disengage the pony. To shut the pony down, you either push the pony throttle rod on the dash all the way in and this will stop the motor, or shut the fuel off at the dash if you have a later model. Sounds pretty complicated, but not too bad after you do it a couple of times. If you are successful in starting the diesel engine, the procedure for shutting it down is to pull the throttle all the way back. There is a push button on the right hand side of the throttle mechanisim. Push it in and pull the throttle back again. The button pushed in will allow the throttle to completely shut off the fuel and shut down the engine. It is also good policy, especially on the R's to pull the decompression lever back while the engine winds down. Lots easier on the main bearings.
HTH

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BillThePuttPuttVirgin

10-12-2005 17:42:38




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 Re: Starting with pony motor in reply to DRL, 10-12-2005 16:22:59  
Thanks for the info. Wish I had gotten to read it earlier, but, I just got done asking how to shut the diesel down. I will look for that knob. You also clearified something in the other instruction where he referred to turning on the fuel for the pony. These are appearantly the earlier models where you just push/pull the throttle rod.

The other R didn't start for me. If you would be so kind as to look for that post/followup I'd appreciate any more insight you could give me.

Thanks again for the info and have a good one! -bill

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WeirdDeere

10-12-2005 01:36:16




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 Re: Starting with pony motor in reply to BillThePuttPuttVirgin, 10-11-2005 17:13:11  
I can help with the diesels (especially the 80-I have one)

The R pony uses a magneto, so there is no ignition switch. The only way to shut it off is to shut off the gas.

On this page there is a video showing how to start an R (click on the "Driving the R" video):
HERE

I have a page with a general description on how to start the R or 80, or even the electric start 830 HERE

The pony engagement is controlled by the two vertical levers on the left side of the platform. On an 80, the right lever decompresses the diesel (for easier cranking) and the left engages the pony. I BELIEVE that the R has the opposite arrangement (left=decompress, right=engage) I know it's in the video, but I can't remember.

Hope this helps a little. I CAN help with the 80, but am a little iffy with the others (I don't have an R or electric start 830)

Good luck,
Brandon
My Industrial John Deere website
John Deere Diesels
The LaGrange Engine Club

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BillThePuttPuttVirgin

10-12-2005 17:33:58




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 Re: Starting with pony motor in reply to WeirdDeere, 10-12-2005 01:36:16  
Thanks for the info. I appreciate it! I have not been able to get much of the video to play, probably not getting it all downloaded on slow connection.

Anyway... Thanks, especially for the Magneto tip and CE shut down. Now, how do you shut down the diesel engine on the R? I got one of them running today and had to use the decompression lever to shut it off. I also got the 80 running, shut it off with the throttle (much like the CE on the R). Got the 830 started and it shuts off from stepping on a pedal. Can't imagine there isn't a better way to shut down the R.

Thanks again, I will probably try to contact you again for further info.

Have a good one! - bill

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BushogPapa

10-12-2005 01:20:54




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 Re: Starting with pony motor in reply to BillThePuttPuttVirgin, 10-11-2005 17:13:11  
Probably the BEST advice is for you to find someone who is familliar with the 2-Cyliner JD Diesels, and the "R" in particular... You might need to make a "check list"...!!!

You have to develop a "Feel" for engaging the Starting Engine(left lever of the 2 on the Left)..done carelessly or improperly, you can seriously damage the ring gear... The lever 2nd from the Left, on the Left side is the Decompression lever for the Main engine.. You MUST keep it pulled back while you engage the starting engine and hold it back until after you see Oil Pressure... While all this is happening, you have to be Sure the Diesel engine throttle is Fully set to OFF, and keep the starting engine running at "full throttle".. When you are ready, release the decompression lever and advance the throttle and hopefully the Main engine will start.. THEN, you Must go thru the procedure of shutting the starting engine DOWN..(Fuel OFF, let run a short while and turn the ignition OFF).. This is all assuming you get the starting engine running well enough to crank the Main engine...!! Like I said, it would be better to have someone show you how to do all these things in the proper order.....!!! Ron..

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BillThePuttPuttVirgin

10-12-2005 17:50:20




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 Re: Starting with pony motor in reply to BushogPapa, 10-12-2005 01:20:54  
Yeah, wish you were here! Anyway, I didn't have anyone here with experience to call on so I started looking online. Can't believe I found this place and got good help from the folks here.

I find you comment about having the diesel throttle in the off position until cranking with compression. I wonder if this could be related to the other R not starting today. (I got one going.) Please see the followup about this if you are willing to share more.

Thanks again! Have a good day! -bill

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